SCP-4994 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-4994.

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Lady Zero 27 Aug 2018 03:21

Hey guys, I'd like to thank all of you on this site so far. This is the 5th article that I've ever posted and hopefully it won't get downvoted to oblivion but I'm so glad I've had the chance to get creative and express myself among such talented writers.

And I'm always willing to learn, so please, give me your feedback! Did you like it? Did you hate it? Great!! I'm happy to have the chance to improve. Tell me what works and what didn't, and I'll apply that moving forward.

Thanks, all of you, so much. I'm glad to be a part of this community.
-Lady Zero

---

Used to know who I was
Fuck if I knew who that was

Response

Uberspective 04 Oct 2018 12:07

Lady Zero, this article is amazing. It's very interesting, and I wish you the best with your future articles. This one is just plain amazing. If you can write something as good as this, you could probably end up making another great SCP. I wish you glory.

- Communism Chicken

Last edited on 04 Oct 2018 12:19 by Uberspective Show more

Crossync 27 Aug 2018 03:53

+1 for concept and delivery, though it's weak pacing-wise - it goes a bit fast, and the conflict is delivered right at the end. Whether or not ARCRA's suggestion is viable is an interesting pitch, but it just plops in there and then it's over.

I'd prefer more meat, let it stretch a little. Length can be tedious on some articles, but this is a big idea, and needs time to let the reader warm up to asking this question.

(account deleted) 27 Aug 2018 05:09

+1. Totally agree with Crossync's point. I really like the tension between two similar but still alien cultures.

DalaiLlama 27 Aug 2018 05:44

I really like this. I think it touches on the whole theme of liberty vs. security pretty well, and the story leaves it ambiguous as to which side is truly right. It's just two similar organizations with differing ideas on what their roles in the world should be.

+1

fishingenthusiast 27 Aug 2018 12:56

this is very good, ill be honest i skim most articles so the pacing wasn't a problem for me but you should definitely touch on that because for people who pay attention it's probably a big deal

the CSS you used for the title is ugly but I can look past that and just focus on the good stuff which is the article and especially that last line which is rEALLY GOOD

Im gonna go +1 regardless good jbo

ModernMajorGeneral 27 Aug 2018 13:19

I don't see how the history of this alternate civilisation relates to the ethical back-and-forth conversation at the end - since this is the whole point of the SCP, this is a big problem for me.

There are two separate issues going on within the final interview - the ethics of revealing anomalies vs. concealing them, and the ethics of an unaccountable organisation taking control of society for its own good. The former works fine in the article - though it's something that's come up many times on the site - and if that were all, I wouldn't have an objection, but the second part comes out of nowhere. Why does HC say the Foundation should take control of society? Nothing in the description of the SCP-4994 world indicates that they have placed ARCRA in charge or that ARCRA improved their society by manipulating things from behind the scenes. Considering that ARCRA considers the Foundation incompetents, why would they think the Foundation taking control would be a good thing (ok, I grant that HC has a different opinion to the rest of his colleagues, but still)?

The O5's response also doesn't scan. 'Accountability to the public' is not something that describes the Foundation in any way, shape or form, and given that the existence of ARCRA is public knowledge, it is almost certainly the more accountable organisation and far less vulnerable to authoritarian tendencies than the Foundation is. I would be on board with this if it were intended to show the hypocrisy of the Foundation administration, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

The ethical questions here are further undermined by the world of SCP-4994 apparently being superior to our own in every way possible - if this had come at a price of authoritarian control by ARCRA, as the final interview might imply, there would be some nuance to this, but like I said, I don't see how ARCRA could possibly be more authoritarian than the Foundation as presented here. The world described is like if you took 3003 and removed all the nasty parts of its society - why should we not follow this system, and in that case, where is the dilemma here? -1

Praise Sigmar 28 Aug 2018 08:29

I'll just leave this here:
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."
-Benjamin Franklin.

The 05 was correct. We are better.

Done25 11 Dec 2018 16:06

I'm sorry, but that quote is asinine. The entire point of societal laws is to give up freedoms in exchange for security. Agreeing not to steal, murder, or do other actions that are declared illegal. For example, no hunting species to extinction. Something that should have happened much earlier in human history.

The only thing in terms of freedom vs security should be "Is this a worth while trade?"

Ex. No screaming "Fire!" in a crowded and enclosed space for the sake of inciting panic.

awhite2490 28 Aug 2018 15:10

I am a sucker for alternate history. This gets an upvote, although there is one suggestion I have (less criticism and more something I wish it had). I'd love some sort of listing of where history diverged from baseline reality and some interesting events post-divergence. I also agree with some of the others that the conflict at the end seems abrupt and a lackluster ending for what is a fantastically executed build up. I want more. At the mention of the possible mission to steal some of their tech, my brain went down a rabbit hole of MTF logs, missions gone sideways, and a plot twist at the end where it's discovered that beneath the seemingly utopian facade, something evil is lurking. Aka all the cliches you could possibly use. This is why I don't write SCPs.

Last edited on 28 Aug 2018 15:11 by awhite2490 Show more

W Asriel 30 Aug 2018 22:01

I’m.. still not convinced by your argument. Ruling the world is not incompatible with serving it. It looks like the alternative Foundation does a better job in serving the world.
The argument that “not ruling = better” seems to be a rejection to all rulers. I mean, some of the rulers are good guys that truly serve their country and their prople. I would say that people definitely need such rulers - and if the Foundation can become one, why not?

NickNirus 31 Aug 2018 15:33

I like this a lot already, but a list of historical divergence points would improve it. Descriptions of those diversions may also hint at the nature of the conflict you're presenting.
+1 and waiting for any changes you might make.

The Mad Maniac 02 Oct 2018 20:54

Yeesh, the ARCRA have a dark side that makes the Foundation's look, not as dark.

ARCRA kind of reminds me of some interpretations of the Chaos Insurgency.

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