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DrClef is responsible for a fair bit of the text here, carried over from SCP-166. I'd like to make that more explicit than I had before.
Thanks to Hippo, Deci, and each and every person who critted it. Sorry for forgetting your input. I treasured it.
I should mention that Dolphin made these images. Source for this claim: talking with Dolphin about the article on Discord.
I wouldn't say that you used the barest of skeletons - you used the skeleton, several organs, and some of the nervous system as well. You kept the dietary requirements, the religious iconography, several lines were pulled verbatim (including from the Special Containment Procedures), and the circumstances of retrieval. Not to mention the direct reference in the article title to the original.
All of which might STILL be fine, except that the references back to the original 166 are holding this article back! For instance: the 1cc semen dietary requirement is never referred back to again and doesn't follow from the core concept here. The SCP is forbidden to have religious iconography, but they are allowed a bible? And the title just has a bunch of unfortunate implications when associated with a gut-wrenching article about abuse and guilt.
Downvoted for now, will revisit when the article can stand on its own two feet, but damned if I don't want to see that happen.
For instance: the 1cc semen dietary requirement is never referred back to again and doesn't follow from the core concept here.
Well if she was made to take in a certain amount of semen each day, as something built into her and can't be undone (especially when this does get alluded to in the interview), it's a necessary thing to point out. It does play into the core concept; the article just isn't built around her requiring this amount of semen. It's just a factor. This is why this is even mentioned in the containment procedures with this specific note:
SCP-4166-1 requires 1 cc of human semen weekly, administered via capsule with food.
Because it's the Foundation's way of containing 4166, a real fucked-up and traumatized individual (which we find out about in great detail here) in a specifically humane way while still keeping to protocol.
And the title just has a bunch of unfortunate implications when associated with a gut-wrenching article about abuse and guilt.
Of all things, this doesn't strike you as intentional? That's the least subtle part of the entire article, to great effect.
admittedly I forgot just how much was taken from 166. apologies for understating it so much.
for the criticisms:
dietary requirements is explained both by adherence to classical succubus mythology and a line in the interview log:
I made a deal to make him pay. For a price, of course. But I was, pardon my French, a fucking slut back then.
as well it ties into the themes of the aftermath of childhood sexual abuse, here the symptom being promiscuity.
as for the religious iconography, wording changed to be “religious […] personnel”. implication was that 4166 experiences distress when seeing other visibly religious individuals based on history, which explains why she can get a bible (personal significant symbol of faith, as opposed to connected to others.)
i chose the title not just as a deliberate call to 166 (and shorthand connotations thereof) but because it *is* unfortunate. it perfectly captures the image and self image of 4166 and it’s horrifying. however if there are any particularly distasteful other interpretations i’d like to hear them, and if necessary change the title.
EDIT: Redid this reply to make my position more explicit. TW: sexual assault, nonconsensual sex.
My problem is that the article ends up lifting entire sections and concepts from SCP-166, but doesn't nail the graft. For instance, the Douay-Rheims Bible, is one that's really only used by the Catholic Church, and would, in my opinion, be about as vivid a reminder of the prior abuse as a clerical collar or crucifix. A better idea would be to use one of the more modern translations, such as the New International Version or Today's English Version (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Bible_translations). Either that, or if SCP-4166 is more inclined to a scholarly approach, they might invest in the encyclopedia-sized Interpreter's Bible.
(Actually, let's be honest: in modern times, they could probably ask for an E-Reader and a whole crapload of different translations of the Bible instead, which is probably what someone who is seeking out a personal relationship with Christ outside of any prescribed canon or catechism might do.)
As for the title: the word "succubus" tends to be loaded, kind of like "nymphet," in that it often ascribes agency and seduction to the woman in question. Considering that agency doesn't exist here when it comes to the woman in question being a victim, its use in this case feels a bit "off," especially considering the traditional iconography of the succubus as a literal rapist of men.
Speaking of which, the traditional succubus iconography doesn't really include using men's semen for personal energy: that's a modern affectation. Traditional succubi were, as stated above, literal rapists of men who would sit on their faces and force them to perform cunnilingus on them, harvest their semen, and either transfer them to incubi to forcibly impregnate sleeping women with, or turn into incubi themselves. The demon's traditional iconography and feel have more to do with night terrors and wet dreams than the current "sexy girl with wings" approach.
Hm. It does occur to me that an argument can be made for SCP-4166-2 being the succubus, and not SCP-4166? After all, in that case we would be looking at a demon that traditionally attacks people in their sleep acting in a protective manner towards a person who made a literal deal with the devil with them to escape a horrifying situation…
Next, the origin. That's a literal holdover from Clef's backstory with the Cornwall Goddess: the convent in that case was a GOC-associated organization that took in 166 after Clef needed to find a safe place to drop her off. It fits in badly with the new take on 4166 here.
Hope I've made my suggestions and arguments clear.
I think that some of what your complaints are, as the original author of 166, stem from the fact that you want this to be more of a different rewrite and not hew so closely to the original. That's valid and certainly a reason to dislike it, but I think this article is doing a lot of this on purpose in order to highlight something about 166 that the author feels strongly about and point out. It seems to be intentional, and trying to go too far off what this article is doing may just have the article be a different concept altogether, rather than more raw and thematic. (IMO, of course.)
I guess I just feel strongly enough about this article, having read it a bunch, to go to bat for it. If it could go for a more differentiating approach and still retain it's vision that may be an interesting option.
Typo. It happens. Fixed, thank you for pointing it out.
Sucks for me that I was going for this concept with the relationship with 4166-1 and 4166-2 for a draft I was working on for months.
Regardless, it's a good article.
[SCP-4166-1 remains silent for ten minutes as ███ continues to take notes.]
What was the researcher taking notes on for 10 minutes? All that had transpired by this time is an introductory hello and a name.
Dude probably wasn't literally writing non-stop for ten minutes. Also just from how 4166 acts silently, there's enough to take notes on (in-person sure but not like SCP documents are always the most visual). I've sat in silence for longer in therapy sessions where my therapist was taking notes for like 80%+ of the time.
Overall enjoy this reimagining (or would rewrite be a better term?) of SCP-166. Couple details seem a little off key for me though.
◾A copy of the Holy Bible (Douay-Rheims, Challoner Revision) (Granted 08-01-2008, Removed by request 08-02-2008, Granted again 08-04-2008.).
Not sure why she would want a bible, especially after reading that therapy log. If she hates the church as much as she says she does, why would she want a bible (point is general, but applies especially to the Douay-Rheims)?
SCP-4166-1 requires 1 cc of human semen weekly, administered via capsule with food.
Not entirely sure why this detail was kept in, considering the succubus is more humanized this time around, being more of a human with anomalous properties about her rather than being the nymph-like creature that DrClef originally wrote her as. She's not borderline fapbait anymore, she's a victim of sexual abuse. Why does she need cum to survive? It is never explained, or even alluded to, so the inclusion of this detail seems tangential at best and unnecessary at worst. The principle of a certain wall-mounted rifle comes to mind…
SCP-4166-1 was raised by the nuns for twelve years prior to the hospitalization of Father █████ in an apparent case of spontaneous combustion. Six days afterwards, the first manifestation of SCP-4166-2 occurred on 07-24-2008.
Very minor issue here, but perhaps you should specify if the priest had died before or after the first manifestation of SCP-4166-2, because the way it is worded here is ambiguous about that information.
Upon entering the room, they found SCP-4166-1 alone, holding a pistol at the entrance to its room. Authorities were not notified of this incident.
A Foundation operative consulting with a local priest regarding an unrelated matter heard of the incidents and proceeded to the scene. When he entered the room of SCP-4166-1, he inadvertently triggered a manifestation of SCP-4166-2 before dispatching it.
All of this implies that -2 entities are as vulnerable to physical damage as a regular person would be, but the whole document is pretty tight-lipped about what these things are beyond "shadowy humanoids". It doesn't mention where they go when they "die", how they react to being physically attacked, or what happens if -1 cannot defend herself from them. This information is either left out entirely or is only mildly implied far later in the document than it should be. Maybe consider adding a little bit more to the description pertaining to these entities?
Minor criticism aside, however, I think I like this article a tad bit more than the original. I like that the "succubus" is treated as a serious and vulnerable human character with a very fucked up, yet grounded backstory, as opposed to the mythological sex fairy that she originally was. It's currently a +1 from me, but I still would like to at least hear your thoughts on my criticisms, even if you just chalk them up to stylistic choices.
EDIT: After thinking about it for a little, changing to no vote for the time being.
EDIT MKII: Back to a +1
Regarding the bible:
God. God. Christ. Forgive me.
And when called "Hard working and devout,"
You, they didn't tell you about… About me? Shit, I mean, I, I was? I am? I am those things. Or was? I don't know anymore. God.
The date the bible is returned is shared by the denial of the butane lighter request. She was going to burn it, at first.
All these are designed to show that she's got some major conflicts with her personal faith, even though she unilaterally hates the church. She was raised her whole life in it, more or less, and it's ingrained in her. She eventually asks for the bible back as a sign of her trying to reconcile herself with her personal faith.
It's also worth noting that the weaponization of the Douay-Rheims Challoner Revision in the journal excerpts further concrete the idea that it's personally significant enough to not abandon. It was what was on hand, yes, but it's also reclaimed.
Regarding the semen:
I made a deal to make him pay. For a price, of course. But I was, pardon my French, a fucking slut back then. Fucking horrible. Christ. Christ. So, so I didn't care. It was a fucking upside to me.
It's a Chekhov's gun alright. The collection of semen as relating to a succubus, and a concrete signifier of the symptom of promiscuity arising from sexual abuse. It sticks with her just like 4166-2.
To be clear: she doesn't need it for sustenance. She needs it or she'll break the pact and likely die.
Regarding the priest:
Deliberately ambiguous as to if/when he died. 4166-1 "didn't even do that right."
Regarding 4166-2:
SCP-4166-2 manifestations are to be terminated upon sight.
The curt and simple delivery of this implies methods of terminating humanoids apply, namely firearms or blunt force. Added a line to say it demanifests instantly.
As for how they react to being attacked:
If SCP-4166-1 retains the memory of containment of SCP-4166-2, SCP-4166-2 proceeds to take action to counteract previous methods of containment, up to and including manifesting with weaponry.
As for "what happens if -1 cannot defend herself from them." there are two answers.
The first is that the foundation couldn't know what happens because they won't let it happen.
The second is one I won't write. You can put the pieces together yourself, but I refuse to write it.
hope this was satisfactory.
Yes, this was exactly the kind of response I had been hoping for! Wikidot didn't notify me of it, though, so I apologize for being a month late!
I did figure that most of my misgivings can be excused as either a stylistic choice, like in the case of SCP-4166-2, or as just me not putting 2 and 2 together, like with the bible and the semen capsule1.
Your response was certainly enough to earn a hearty +1 from me.
Like most of these re-writes this struggles to stand on its own, the original 166 was not particularly powerfully written in either of its incarnations, this struggles with both that legacy and an over-reliance on eliding exactly what's going on.
I appreciate you're trying to write around a previously existing article without making direct reference to it, but what you have here is scaffolding, not superstructure, and it's scaffolding for a concept that wasn't particularly engaging the first time around.
But overall I liked it.
Some suggestions;
Why not make the formerly teenage succubus more interesting by having her work on overcoming her abuse from the past?
Deal with the devil? Really? That’s a cliché I have grown tired of but maybe you could think of a way to make it work.
I always enjoyed the idea of Clef having a daughter - though knowing Clef I would expect any kid he has to be Helen Vaughan. That could work.
Ironic that what wanted to be a rewrite of SCP-166 needs a rewrite now. Please, try to remove the similarities between this and SCP-166. Only ten my vote will change.
(account deleted)
