My attempt at a Nazi SCP, for the SCP-4000 contest. This article is not for the faint of heart
Inspired by The Anglo/American Nazi War.
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This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-4025.
This scp, although it falls in the same "nazis won and did even more terrible things", i liked it.
But you have focused too much in Eastern Europe and I would have expected something more detailed than "Hitler conquested all of Europe except UK eventually". I say that because Spain, Portugal and Italy were allies from Axis (and Vichy France).
And for the heck of it, how would do the nazis outside of Europe?
Neutral vote at the moment.
I agree more worldbuilding would improve this, but Spain and Portugal weren't in the Axis (I guess you could argue Spain was an Axis associate, but not a member).
(account deleted)As someone born from a country riddled with colonizations, this piece resonates with me a lot. I don't know much about Nazis, so I don't see any historical inaccuracies or missed opportunities, but I upvote because of the pathos alone.
Some things I'd like to know though:
- What is the importance of one of the 4000-1 instances, "A History of the First World War"?
- Is there any significance in the fact that all 4000-1 instances are published sooner than their original counterparts?
Good thing the contest is extended. I'd love to see how well this article does.
the difficulty of hearing the voices of Nazi victims when all were silenced (and their memories erased)
Nazi amnestics from a Nazi Foundation?
I feel like I'm pulling at the straws of headcanon here, but it's an upvote either way
I will note that all the warnings about "this is not for the faint of heart" seemed a little presumptuous
No. Anne Frank's diary was never recovered, because nobody in her family survived the war. The Nazis we're eventually crushed, but not in time to save European Jewry; Ashkenazim are functionally extinct in the Blutfahne's timeline of reference.
The role that the Jewish people play in maintaining the memory of Nazi atrocities is instead taken by the Baltic and Slavic peoples.
Not sure about this for a number of reasons of varying levels of pedantry.
- The preservation of only Gdańsk is unlikely as there were numerous cities in Poland with German roots (which the Nazis had incentives to exaggerate) such as Bydgoszcz and Toruń. I'm not sure to what extent this was official policy, but the most important of these, Kraków, was specifically titled by the Nazis as an 'urdeustche Stadt', which contributed to its survival through the end of the war. There are also cities such as Wrocław which were German pre-war and transferred to Poland afterwards, which would also presumably have survived systematic destruction by the Nazis (though whether they would be considered 'Polish cities' in this timeline may be up for debate).
- Given the Anglo-American Nazi War inspiration, the omission of one of the key horror themes (the nuclear/biological/chemical destruction of much of Europe) is noticeable. I can understand not wanting to bring up hypothetical Allied atrocities in writing about the evils of Nazis, but that brings me to the problem with Nazi alternate history being written from a horror perspective; the Nazis pretty much reached the absolute limit of doing horrendous things that could realistically happen, so unless you want to talk about horrible things the Allies could have done (like nuking Western Europe) or have silly Wolfenstein Nazis who raise zombies and demons, it's hard to envision a plausible Nazi Europe that's much worse than the reality. For me, the potentially interesting aspects of Nazi Europe as opposed to real history involve the psychological/political implications of a 20-40 year occupation of various territories or the effects of this situation on the rest of the world. However, in this article, what you have is a fictional description of a bunch of things that already happened in real life - destruction of Polish cities, depopulation of the East, Germanisation and so on (obviously the full Generalplan Ost was never able to be enacted, but you can see the policy in the areas that were occupied). Reading a history book would be both more educational and more emotionally compelling (since it would actually be real). I also agree with
morhadow that because of this, the total focus on the East makes this less interesting.
- I don't like the idea that all primary evidence of the Holocaust was successfully erased. It gives Nazis too much credit for efficiency and competence. While of course a longer occupation would have led to the deaths of many more Holocaust victims in hiding, there were many survivors who witnessed the Holocaust and escaped to neutral or Allied countries and/or provided evidence to the Allies (see Witold Pitecki) while the war was still going on. There's no reason this wouldn't still happen in the event of the USSR being defeated and to suggest otherwise is a bit disrespectful to them, I think. Additionally, with the Nazis now having to police a huge occupied territory and population in the East, you could argue there might even be more first-hand witnesses and escapees from the Holocaust, not less.
- The Nazi victory alt-history scenario is probably the number 1 most common and argued about alt-history in existence, and I tend to fall into the camp where it's inherently unrealistic. The Nazi prospects of winning were always very slim, even against the USSR in isolation - German leaders were both horrified and disbelieving of statistics like the USSR producing something like 20,000 tanks compared to Germany's 5,000, in 1942 when they occupied huge amounts of Soviet territory. To construct a Nazi victory you have to get pretty wacky (like PoDs in the 1900s with Nazi USA scenarios). The full-scale enactment of Generalplan Ost, while certainly a horrific concept, was probably unlikely to ever be feasible for similar reasons - devoting thousands of troops in occupied territories to destroy infrastructure and kill people (potential auxiliary troops for your army) is extremely bad military strategy. There's certainly pitfalls in making Nazis look too weak or stupid, but I personally think overestimating the power of what was a deeply dysfunctional and simply not very efficient ideology is more annoying and troublesome.
- Ultimately, I don't think this has anything to differentiate it from the 10000000 'what if the Nazis won' stories floating around on the internet, particularly as, like I said above, the scenarios explored aren't that different to what really happened. I would normally be quickly downvoting Nazi victory alt-hist on the mainlist simply because it's so derivative and there are much better stories about it outside of the SCP wiki. I can get behind having a 'classic' alt-history idea as a grand thing for a 4000 history-themed contest, but the various problems above led to a downvote. I thought about it for long enough to write out this ridiculously long post, so the writing was at least more engaging than most other similar material.
I like this as a skip and gave it a +1, but I'm not sure it's hard-hitting enough to be an X000 contest winner.
Eh.
At its base, the object reminds me a lot of SCP-140 in its glimpses into an altered timeline to explore events that haven't happened. While that is fine, as there is a lot of wiggle room in that kind of broad concept, I don't feel this does enough worldbuilding to pull the concept off well. Had the focus included other areas of the war or areas outside of just Eastern Europe, then you might have covered enough ground to really let the reader sink their teeth in.
I will say, you do a good job with the emotions of the pieces, and the final entry is particularly chilling. That said, the rest of the entries do spin their wheels after the initial ground is tread, and that ultimately kills the piece.
-1.
Latgalians as an ethnicity do not exist in Lithuania. They are only in Latvia and neighbouring fringes of Russia, and even then, it is difficult to distinguish. Latgalian as a language has debated status, whether as a divergent form of Latvian (with a separate standard form) or an independent language in the East Baltic family.
Also, the extermination of all Latgalians give rise to this question: what would become of Daugavpils, Rēzekne, and Jēkabpils in that universe?
Otherwise, perfect. +1 for this, and a great way to incorporate The Anglo / American - Nazi War into here. Calbear will be proud of you.
Edit: my mistake in placing it here.
/forum/t-6601596/scp-4025#post-
page revision: 1, last edited: 02 Apr 2021 15:16
