The Flower Of Battle / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page The Flower Of Battle.

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Author Post

DrMagnus 09 May 2018 21:00

So, firstly thank you to those who went through this with me, and encouraged me to post this.

This is half joke about how over the top 076-2 is, half love letter to fencing and my style in particular.

I see an absurd amount of hilariously bad melee combat on the wiki, and I figured a tale which had a bit of real swordsmanship in it would make me happy.

This may not appeal to everyone, as it'll come off a bit dry, but to those who appreciate Fiore dei Liberi, it'll cause some grins.

Enjoy, and keep your guard up!

EDIT: See how many bad sword memes you can spot in the article. If you can find them all, gold star for you <3

Last edited on 09 May 2018 21:11 by DrMagnus Show more

minmin 10 May 2018 02:26

I find it difficult to believe Able's bullet-catching reflexes can be outdone by simple sidestepping, but I'm a sucker for the technical backing in this story. +1

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 12:45

Physique takes a backseat to physics, as my fencing teacher loved to say.

I also headcanon that the bullet swatting is some kind of specific defense that works on ranged attacks. It's not just general purpose super-speed, or he'd be literally unstoppable.

Rancorious 18 Aug 2022 03:30

Anime logic dictates that everyone has bullet precognition

Modern_Erasmus 10 May 2018 02:50

Weeable was pretty hilarious. My only suggestion to make this better would be by having De Luca’s sword be an unnamed tool to contrast more with Able’s grandiose naming strategy.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 03:46

In the original it was.

In the end, his sword is name after my sword. My actual real life Italian Longsword is named The Oathkeeper. De Luca is the closest thing to a self insert I've ever written.

sirpudding 10 May 2018 17:51

My Irish ring pommel is my Good Argument.

Prof_JL 12 May 2018 18:23

Where did you get an italian longsword?

DrMagnus 14 May 2018 12:58

Internet, where else?

sirpudding 14 May 2018 13:57

IME, personal networks. I know a half dozen armorers.

DrMagnus 14 May 2018 14:14

All of the armorers I work with, generally conduct business through the internet.

I've rarely, if ever, bought a piece that wasn't commissioned. Most of the steel at renfairs and the such around here don't have the kind of quality required to really stand up to any kind of stress.

The only "decent" forge around here are Starfire, and their pieces might as well be steel bars for how much excess weight they carry.

sirpudding 14 May 2018 14:27

Yeah, I know good armorers.

Prof_JL 18 May 2018 22:11

Of course.

DrChandra 10 May 2018 08:06

I'd like to think that this is in the same continuity as my The Warrior And The... Clown? First a Clown takes him down, and now this? Able's having a bad time.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 12:43

Dude should take some fencing lessons, he's gotten clowned by a human and a…well, a clown.

Rancorious 18 Aug 2022 03:39

This is what happens when you haven't practiced swordsmanship against other proper opponents for that long of a time.

Gummy_Dragon 10 May 2018 12:15

… I should have known it was you who wrote this, Magnus. You are the only person on this site (to my knowledge) who would give a shit about swordmanship. And the shit was well given.

He broke into a run bent at the waist, his hands stretched out behind him, a secret technique he'd learned to sprint more effectively.

Requesting that Able not be permitted to watch films of the 'anime' gendre.
+1.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 12:47

To be fair, I think sirpudding and eris could have written about the same topic. I'm definitely the authority on Italian Longsword 'round here though.

Requesting that Able not be permitted to watch films of the 'anime' gendre.

Nah, I'd love to see the look on his face when he tries a rasengan.

sirpudding 10 May 2018 13:02

I think sirpudding and eris could have written

It's true, Goddess is my coauthor.

I'm definitely the authority on Italian Longsword 'round here though.

Yeah, I've done very little Italian. Now that I have money again, I'm looking for a school, though. I'd really like to find one that does Silver and/or I.33 though.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 13:44

As far as I've ever been able to figure out, I'm the only qualified Italian Fiore instructor in a couple hundred miles radial.

It's rare 'round here.

sirpudding 10 May 2018 17:46

I used to know one (which is where I have gotten any formal Fiore at all, besides just reading him) but he vanished.

We've got Talhoffner and Maier within striking distance at all times though…

Last edited on 10 May 2018 17:50 by sirpudding Show more

sirpudding 10 May 2018 13:23

Able's voice flustered for a moment, "Y-yeah, of course I have. I've been fighting with swords since the time of creation!"

So have we. The difference is we did it generation by generation through study and teaching. We actually learned how to fight with swords and we improved on what we learned. You mostly slept in a box while we mastered the blade.

DrCaroll 10 May 2018 13:33

You mostly slept in a box while we mastered the blade.

Whilst you were sleeping, I studied the blade.

e: Also, I genuinely liked the story. I'm usually not a sucker for tales, but this one got me grinning.

Last edited on 10 May 2018 13:34 by DrCaroll Show more

CreativeUsername#47 14 May 2018 22:13

niiiiiiiiiiiice

Rancorious 18 Aug 2022 03:41

While you wasted your days in the pursuit of a kill count, I cultivated better balance.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 13:42

Precisely! (I figured you'd appreciate this'un)

Hilarity

Alainpbat 11 May 2018 13:48

While you were contemplating the means of escape, I studied the sword.

Majestic

[this comment was made by mistake]

Last edited on 11 May 2018 14:09 by Alainpbat Show more

DrZinc 10 May 2018 13:38

"Oh ho ho, a swordsman? Very brave, but very foolish. Before your Foundation floundered in the dark, I'd studied the blade for millennia!"

"You simply adopted the sword, I was born into it, I molded it"

It is nice to see Able less kill perfect than usual. Just because you were first, doesn't mean your the best, especially if your sword is the "First One". 1000s of Years of better sword manufacturing trump the first.

Also, "Oathkeeper"? Any specific reason for that name? Kingdom Hearts comes to mind.

E: Never mind, saw another comment.

Last edited on 10 May 2018 13:40 by DrZinc Show more

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 14:13

1000s of Years of better sword manufacturing trump the first.

Interestingly, modern swords and ancient swords are actually not that far apart in quality, after a certain point in time. Designs from historic periods are also very good at what they do.

I can't think of any "modern" sword designs better than historic ones.

Scorpion451 10 May 2018 15:00

Not to mention smithing is one of those art-sciences where things get lost and rediscovered over and over. The Sword of Goujian¹is a good example- a bronze sword found in 1965 during the excavation of a ~2500 year old submerged tomb, still razor-sharp and shiny.

Took modern metal analysis to figure the thing out: Its still not 100% clear how the process worked (there's several theories), but apparently some unknown cadre of metallurgical geniuses in ancient China figured out how to marry a core of high-copper bronze to an edge of high-tin bronze, and then infuse the surface metal with sulfur to make it virtually immune to corrosion without screwing up the existing weld or the properties of the edge and core.

It's still a bronze sword with all the weaknesses that entails, but in terms of common technology at the time it was forged, this thing might as well have been made of nanobots. (And it's still a pretty darn impressive bit of smithing by today's standards.)

Footnotes

1. And other, more recently discovered swords forged using the same techniques

Last edited on 10 May 2018 15:05 by Scorpion451 Show more

LordBlaze 10 May 2018 15:24

Swordsmanship and dueling has always fascinated me since I watched Count Dooku fight in Star Wars as a little kid. When I learned that people could do that kind of elegance and flow in real life it always made me wonder how. Seeing Able who is Supposed to be the ultimate killer defeated by a normal man who just happened to have years of experience and practice with a blade is insanely awesome.

Able's voice flustered for a moment, "Y-yeah, of course I have. I've been fighting with swords since the time of creation!"

This part really made me chuckle. Seeing the master killer stuttering at a simple question is just funny. The way Able is so overconfident and cocky compared to De Luca's collected nature also shines out to me. One of the first tales that I could really paint a movie into my head on how it really looked.

Astounding +infinity if I could

---

The Holy Warrior walked. It had been a long time since he'd walked this far, but he was used to walking nonetheless.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 15:31

Interesting example! Christopher Lee in fact, was an expert real-life fencer, and designed Count Dooku's movements to mirror more realistic ones (and ones which he could accomplish at his age).

As for how people get this way: practice practice practice. I've been longsword fencing for going on sixteen years now, and I'm still practicing my basic strikes, a few hundred times each a day. Go through all eight, go through the advanced strikes, practice kata. Repeat. You practice until it's unconscious. Until those off-line steps are just the natural conclusion to their motion.

That kind of fencing is stylized, but Christopher Lee is an extraordinary human being. If anyone could be De Luca, it's him in his 30's.

Last edited on 10 May 2018 15:31 by DrMagnus Show more

LordBlaze 10 May 2018 15:43

WWII vet, sith lord, wizard, knight, vampire, master fencer, movie star, singer. I mean come on what credentials does Lee not have to be considered one of the greatest people in modern history?¹

Footnotes

1. I'll tell ya what, nothing.

---

The Holy Warrior walked. It had been a long time since he'd walked this far, but he was used to walking nonetheless.

Rancorious 18 Aug 2022 03:44

Christopher Lee is one of the few IRL people with a measurable power level.

Shaggydredlocks 10 May 2018 15:45

This was an immensely satisfying read.

Agent MacLeod 10 May 2018 18:27

0/10, De Luca did not unscrew his pommel and end 076-2 rightly.

In all seriousness, I'm neutral voting because I really dislike this interpretation of 076-2. I love you incorporating your knowledge into the story, but part of me actually wants to read 076-2 dueling like he actually knows what he's doing and giving De Luca or his equivalent a run for their money. Like, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the story, it's just that I don't care for the "lol 076-2 is actually a hammy, incompetent fool" version of the site's flexible multicanon. I understand why you did that but it doesn't jive with me.

That being said, this is a good, funny story if that version of Abel works for a given reader, especially if the reader knows much about sword-fighting (a lot of jargon was completely lost on me, which has less to do with your skill as an author and more to do with my own ignorance). This definitely has a place on the site, at least.

sirpudding 10 May 2018 18:35

Well I think in this case it's the idea that he never had to learn anything that we have developed in the three millenia since he last trained or really practice what he already knew, but has relied on his supernatural abilities instead. Which seems both clever and plausible to me.

Of course a good tactical shooter probably would have the same advantages, but that's really a conceit of this tale that he is able to have contempt for firearms.

Agent MacLeod 10 May 2018 21:49

While I can definitely see some of that, I feel like the references to anime and the lines about katanas in particular really sold this version of Abel as a parody of the kind of people who idolize bladed weapons without understanding them. I would expect a real immortal demigod and avatar of war to at least know how much he doesn't know.

Another take on this is, he's never had a real challenger so he just assumed he was awesome at what he does. While funny in this context, I'm still not a huge fan.

As an aside, now I really want to read a story where someone like De Luca teaches Abel modern swordsmanship or possibly even firearms usage. "Finger away from the trigger until you're ready to shoot. Now line up the sights and squeeeeze…" *click* "We just went over this! You need to charge the handle when you load a new magazine. It's not gonna magically reload itself!" "sorry…"

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 22:02

I'm amenable to writing that.

And yes, the parts before the actual duel were comedic with 076-2 in them.

I don't actually think Able the actual skip would naruto-run.

Rancorious 18 Aug 2022 03:42

The world isn't ready for an Able who's actually training.

DrMagnus 10 May 2018 22:02

I'm curious what jargon was lost on you.

The guards were described, and the entire "prefight" ritual was to name the parts of the sword for anyone who didn't know what they were.

Not trying to be an arse, just trying to figure out what I missed.

Agent MacLeod 10 May 2018 23:12

On rereading, I realize I just… Didn't read it very carefully the first time 'round. My bad.

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