Complaints Thread

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Complaints Thread

Zyn 26 Apr 2018 23:39

Creating a new thread for addressing these, as the last thread was getting bloated and was originally posted in 2011. It can be accessed here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-378997/complaints-thread

If you have any complaints about the site, please state them here, and we will address them as we can.

Note: This thread is for serious complaints, and trolling/joke complaints will be deleted.

Note 2: This thread is not for complaints about non-staff users. Please message a member of the Disciplinary Committee or a site administrator.

Re: Complaints Thread

Benji_the_Blue 08 Jul 2020 12:56

Hey, I'm not sure whether anyone will respond to this since the last post was 2 years ago! But I'll ask anyway.

This probably sounds pretty petty, and an easily changeable complaint but it happens quite often and it's so bothersome. It's really annoying (for me personally) when, not just staff, but any viewer who replies to a vague, incomplete review to a writer on the help idea critique, with

this feedback is vague and unhelpful. As per the site's Criticism Policy, forum critique should be relatively in-depth. Staff prioritize threads with no response, and by offering poor critique, you may be preventing an author from receiving the critique they are seeking.

I understand that the person who gave the obscure review in the first place is definitely incorrect, but I would argue that the staff (let's just say staff for simplicity) is equally in the wrong, causing the exact problems the other reviewer is causing:

• Giving absolutely no response at all

&

• Adding to the amount of response, lessening the chance of writer getting responded to, even more than the different reviewer

This hypocritical mindset is why I'm so irritated.

I believe if a member 'staff' doesn't have any review or input to give, then they should not reply at all. Sure, I'm fine if you complain to a vague response and add your reviews and opinions as well, but if you just leave a half-arse "I am good! your response is bad!" and no review (sorry for my bashful language), then that is disappointing to the writer who is actually waiting for a response and a review, buts accompanies a tv drama instead.

I'm sorry if I was extremely forward. But this was bothering me for a while and I feel this could have been an apparent fix.

Last edited on 08 Jul 2020 17:11 by Benji_the_Blue Show more

Re: Complaints Thread

Zyn 09 Jul 2020 05:48

As a general note, for this thread, please use the "new post" button at the bottom left of the screen—that way the comment will nest properly with the other newer comments. Typically when checking this thread, staff don't look at the first posts (which, if comments are posted correctly, are the oldest queries).

+ show block

I understand that the person who gave the obscure review in the first place is definitely incorrect, but I would argue that the staff (let's just say staff for simplicity) is equally in the wrong, causing the exact problems the other reviewer is causing:

Giving absolutely no response at all

What do you recommend that staff do instead to address problematic critique?

Also, if staff/reviewers should be obligated to provide a critique if they're going to comment on someone providing low-quality critique, what should be done to prevent authors from taking advantage of that and "helping" people get more reviews by spamposting low quality material on other threads?

Adding to the amount of response, lessening the chance of writer getting responded to, even more than the different reviewer

The forum guidelines have changed, and reviews are no longer automatically given/prioritized to threads that have fewer replies. Rather, authors are asked to contact reviewers directly to request feedback.

Sure, I'm fine if you complain to a vague response and add your reviews and opinions as well, but if you just leave a half-arse "I am good! your response is bad!" and no review (sorry for my bashful language),

This admittedly comes off as rather accusatory. If you feel that staff template responses sound like half-arsed complaining that targets users personally while making it seem like staff are self-congratulating, please provide examples of alternate wording that can be used for said templates.

then that is disappointing to the writer who is actually waiting for a response and a review,

Again, authors should reach out to reviewers to request feedback rather than just waiting without reaching out at all. We have a thread for this: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-13282692/how-to-get-more-reviews

Last edited on 09 Jul 2020 05:49 by Zyn Show more

Re: Complaints Thread

Benji_the_Blue 09 Jul 2020 11:06

Hey Zyn, sorry for the last post it was… unprofessional,

Next time I will use the 'new post'. (I did wonder why the front page post was so far back.)

+ Response

what should be done to prevent authors from taking advantage of that and "helping" people get more reviews by spamposting low quality material on other threads?

You're definitely right there, there's not really another way of replying to many short spam threads other than using short warnings, but I presume that you and the staff team can delete such responses and leave a verbal warning, which I'm fine about since these posts won't be about the bad reviews but the spamming its self.

The forum guidelines have changed, and reviews are no longer automatically given/prioritized to threads that have fewer replies. Rather, authors are asked to contact reviewers directly to request feedback.

I knew that from the start, although you still do both, take my example from before:
"This feedback is vague and unhelpful. As per the site's Criticism Policy, forum critique should be relatively in-depth. Staff prioritize threads with no response, and by offering poor critique, you may be preventing an author from receiving the critique they are seeking."

This was a new response, on the help critique forums that if you scrolled 3 to 2 pages you'll probably find, so I simply assumed that this was still done. Plus for none staff reviewers, they do rely on 'no response threads' and newer works to critique.

This admittedly comes off as rather accusatory. If you feel that staff template responses sound like half-arsed complaining that targets users personally while making it seem like staff are self-congratulating, please provide examples of alternate wording that can be used for said templates.

Apologies for this, like I said "Unprofessional." However my statement came out wrong, it's not that staff are blatantly screaming out of their lungs "I am good! your response is bad!" It's that hypocritical mindset that makes me believe with this statement. Notifying reviewers that their response didn't help the author in a sufficient way while replying with a message that doesn't help the author in any sufficient way, feels very one-sided. Even though the staff are doing the same thing as the bad reviewers, they're in the right?

All in all, I can already tell you won't budge and won't do anything about it. It's was only a minor critique anyway, sorry for wasting your time.

Last edited on 10 Jul 2020 10:59 by Benji_the_Blue Show more

Re: Complaints Thread

Zyn 10 Jul 2020 06:49

Responses:

+ show block

I presume that you and the staff team can delete such responses and leave a verbal warning, which I'm fine about since these posts won't be about the bad reviews but the spamming its self.

Staff only delete posts that contain severe rulebreaking, to keep users accountable for what they post. Doing that also allows for greater transparency—just because staff know that a post was deleted doesn't mean that site members in general know that a post was removed.

Furthermore, users often create multiple "replacement" posts or threads when they think something they posted is missing. Dropping a staff warning doesn't always guarantee that spamming will stop, or that the spammer will notice the staff warnings to begin with.

This was a new response, on the help critique forums that if you scrolled 3 to 2 pages you'll probably find, so I simply assumed that this was still done.

Can you provide a direct link to the post? The forum threads shift fairly often day-to-day, so what you've seen on page 2-3 will definitely be different from what I'm seeing 19 hours later. If I know the staff member who's using an outdated placeholder, they can be updated much faster.

Plus for none staff reviewers, they do rely on 'no response threads' and newer works to critique.

Is this something that you can confirm with examples and comparisons? I've tended to see a more or less even split between newer reviewers responding to threads with no replies versus threads that already have replies. Again though, it might depend on the time of day that the forums are viewed.

It's that hypocritical mindset that makes me believe with this statement. Notifying reviewers that their response didn't help the author in a sufficient way

Newer placeholders should ideally implement the following link: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-9804362/so-you-want-to-be-a-concept-reviewer

Ideally, staff addressing problematic feedback should be encouraging the reviewer in question to improve their critique themselves, rather than expecting staff to essentially write one for them.

while replying with a message that doesn't help the author in any sufficient way, feels very one-sided.

Are you stating that you feel that noting feedback is problematic does not help the author?

Even though the staff are doing the same thing as the bad reviewers, they're in the right?

Staff are inherently not "doing the same thing as the bad reviewers", as they are present in the thread not to post a review, but to address breach of forum rules/etiquette. A reviewer who posts a low-quality review is not present in the thread to address any sort of forum guideline in the same capacity.

I think the disconnect here is the belief that if anyone posts in a review thread, for whatever reason, they're obligated to give a review. Is this correct?

ETA: also, as a general note, there's no need to sign your posts. Everyone can already see your username at the top of every comment you post, and this is a forum discussion, not an email chain. It seems a little silly to re-introduce yourself repeatedly when again, the associated username is fairly obvious.

Last edited on 10 Jul 2020 06:50 by Zyn Show more

Log of Anomalous Item Complailnt

(account deleted) 27 Apr 2018 06:51

As of writing, the Log of Anomalous Items has been locked for five months and sixteen days for "pruning". It has been edited once in that time, with the edit note simply reading "by request". No new entries have been added, and no old entries have been removed. If it's going to be a curated article, then curate it, please. As it is, it's like a slightly less offensive version of the Bright List.

Last edited on 27 Apr 2018 06:52 by (account deleted) Show more

Re: Log of Anomalous Item Complailnt

Zyn 27 Apr 2018 07:25

As noted on the list's discussion thread, I'll nudge someone about this and possibly getting some recruits to help prune it. Or making a Part II.

Re: Complaints Thread

Croquembouche 27 May 2018 19:48

I don't think this merits its own thread, and here seems like a good place

The Sandbox - by which I mean all three of them - doesn't respond to the user being on mobile. If I'm on mobile, I just get the normal site, scaled down horizontally to fit on my screen, with text either hugely increased in size or barely big enough to read depending on who-knows-what.

+ Screenshot

Normally this wouldn't matter, except my doomsday contest team had a draft for our hub page sitting around that required a more responsive layout. Link is here http://www.scp-wiki.net/end-of-death-hub

Resize your browser window and you see what I mean. It has different layouts for mobile and for desktop, based on detecting the screen size.

I had to spend a fair bit of time correcting the mobile layout of that hub after it was posted because of the differences between the main site and the sandbox. It would've been a lot easier to test that page on the sandbox had the scaling been consistent between the two sites.

I think it's because the <head> for the sandbox is missing the following line:

<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">

Hopefully adding that line will fix the issue. I have no clue how easy that is to do, though - I have my own wikidot site just for testing this sort of thing and I couldn't work out how to do it. It might even be that you have to have a premium account to do it?

I actually brought this up in #site11 a week or two (or three/four?) ago, but as the issue still stands so I'm bringing up again in a more permanent place :P

I appreciate that this is a fairly niche problem that doesn't matter for 99% of this site's content, but it is still a problem

EDIT: I believe this issue can be fixed if a Sandbox admin goes +Options -> Edit Meta -> Add a new meta tag -> Fills in the meta tag details -> Apply to all pages.

Last edited on 06 Jun 2018 10:43 by Croquembouche Show more

Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 17:19

This discussion has been stop-ordered. Please see here for further information. ~ Decibelle

Since it's Pride Month, I see that the Foundation emblem at the top of the site page has been given a rainbow background. I understand and do not oppose the presumed sentiments or motives that led to this, but I do find it a bit immersion-breaking. There's a reason why even the disclaimer stating that the threat of detainment that appears in bold at the top of the main/front page is not a real warning only appears tucked away from the main/front page elsewhere on the site: immersion preservation.

Yes, I understand that there are plenty of other things that break immersion on the site and even on the main/front page. You would need to be pretty dimwitted to not notice many of these things even upon cursory examination. That being said, there is nothing so predominant on the screen that embraces its almost self-recognized immersion-breaking quality.

I ain't no homophobe, trust me. I just think that maybe the rainbow background to the emblem is too disruptive to the surface-level atmosphere of the site. I mean, we can probably all agree that it draws the eye, especially in contrast to the characteristically bleak design and color scheme of the rest of the site. It is out of place visually and when it comes to atmospheric narrative; while you can disagree, I don't think that the SCP Foundation, the cold, covert, ominous, bureaucratic, harsh, machine-like, single-minded, jackboots-on-the-ground, unemotional global organization whose only motives are contained within its name would feel so compelled to so visibly show solidarity or celebration during Pride Month. For the reasons stated, I think it would be best to either revert back to the original emblem or at least to not return to the rainbow background for next year's Pride Month.

It isn't a big deal, it just grabbed my attention and irked me upon entering the site for the first time this month. No, not for its message, but for how out-of-place and aesthetically disruptive on visual and atmospheric/narrative/immersive levels it is. But that's just my two cents.

Last edited on 09 Jun 2018 01:25 by Decibelles Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 17:38

Following up on ooblex’s post, it’s important to note that The Foundation is a creative writing website that represents a wide variety of people, including people who do not appreciate the ideas behind pride month. Does this mean everyone gets to troll each other? No. But it is an odd thing to celebrate given that The Foundation as a whole doesn’t necessarily support pride month. Furthermore, I think this is the only time we’ve done something like this. I don’t remember a special logo for Black History Month or any other significant event. Why just this group?
I also recommend reverting the logo to its original form.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 17:43 by DoctorPhenomenon Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 17:51

I would gladly switch out the logo for a fitting one for Black History Month every year.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 19:08

I would discourage that for the same reasons as the ones I've already stated, especially since the potential drama and hassle of removing it can be avoided by not implementing it in the first place.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

The Great Hippo 08 Jun 2018 17:51

Following up on ooblex’s post, it’s important to note that The Foundation is a creative writing website that represents a wide variety of people, including people who do not appreciate the ideas behind pride month.

Those people can leave.

While I neither demand nor expect everyone to actively appreciate the existence of pride month, those who oppose its existence in any sense are people I have no desire to interact with within the constraints of this community. I don't want to read their articles. I don't want to read their posts. I don't want them to read my articles. I just want them to leave.

I deal with them enough on the outside; I don't need the stress of having to deal with them here.

I don’t remember a special logo for Black History Month or any other signifigant event. Why just this group?

Black History month is about familiarizing yourself with the history of African Americans; while there are parallels with pride month, it's not quite the same sentiment. The change in logo is a way of signaling to people in the LGBTQ community that this community is proud of its LGBTQ members, and open to including more.

More to the point being expressed: I think it's fair to take issue with the logo for breaking "character" (and I think it is fair to argue that the Foundation, "in character", would not adopt this symbol — though your canon may vary!), but I also think there's significant value in expressing 'out-of-character' solidarity with LGBTQ communities, and that this value trumps any damage done to the verisimilitude of the site.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 18:05

Hippo.
With all due respect.
The first part of your post is essentially telling those with different opinions than you to get off the site. This is both impolite and intolerant. Again, provided the people are not being abusive, illegal, harassing, or trollish, all types of opinions and ideas are permitted on this site. The Foundation tries to include EVERYONE. This is why the articles are so unique and diverse.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 18:07 by DoctorPhenomenon Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 18:10

People who are against Pride Month due to displaying homophobic and transphobic views on this site are not welcome here. If a user expresses such views, we can ban them. Thus, Hippo is correct.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 18:20

I respect your position as an admin.
Reading the site rules. An unpopular opinion will never result in a ban.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 18:27

The rules are explicitly and intentionally not designed to cover every single possible case so that the Disciplinary Team can have leeway and flexibility in edge or unclear cases or cases not generally covered by the rules.

Plus, these “unpopular opinions” (which, depending on where you live, are in fact the majority and thus popular opinion) have resulted in people being harmed mentally, verbally, physically, even with their life. So I’m not inclined to respect that, and neither is staff (a number of whom are LGBT anyway).

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Prototype_Toaster 08 Jun 2018 19:43

So does that mean that hypothetically, conservative and other right wing members (excluding white nationalists ban them tbh) could be banned for those unpopular opinions?

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Derps31 08 Jun 2018 19:50

This is an argument that has plagued free speech forever, how far can go while still being acceptable? In my eyes, if it does not cause physical harm, then it is acceptable. White nationalism advocates for harming and demising minorities which is NOT OK. In my opinion, this should be applied to banning anyone.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

The Great Hippo 08 Jun 2018 19:50

Anyone could be banned for those "unpopular" opinions. You don't need to be a conservative to oppose the existence of LGBTQ, and being a conservative doesn't mean you do.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 19:51 by The Great Hippo Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 19:55

I'm not referring to "Oh, capitalism is cool!" or "This is an SCP about justifying war cause that's what I believe", to give like two random examples off of the top of my head. Hypothetically, those types of users can be banned for expressing hateful and derogatory and harmful viewpoints.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 20:54

The line can be very fine in some cases. The same statement could be polite in one person’s eyes and hateful in another’s. I’m concerned about the possibility that a non-inflammatory opinion will rub a staff member the wrong way and cause them to ban someone, just because that person didn’t agree with them.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 21:09

No matter who staff bans for what reason when it comes to stuff not explicitly stated in the rules, someone is going to find a reason to complain, so we're not too concerned with how some people see it, but rather if we all think it was hateful, derogatory, bigoted, or harmful.

EDIT: Also:

I’m concerned about the possibility that a non-inflammatory opinion will rub a staff member the wrong way and cause them to ban someone, just because that person didn’t agree with them.

Bans are decided by multiple staff, not just one member.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 21:09 by Decibelles Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

TastesLikeSalt 23 Jun 2018 09:16

Couldn't we have just had an LGBTQ+ writing contest or something instead of changing the logo?

Re: TastesLikeSalt

Golden506 24 Jun 2018 01:59

^{_{admin called a stop order downthread just so you know}}

Last edited on 24 Jun 2018 01:59 by Golden506 Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

AimEngie 09 Dec 2018 18:30

harmful… slightly concerned there mate.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

The Great Hippo 08 Jun 2018 18:11

Again, provided the people are not being abusive, illegal, harassing, or trollish, all types of opinions and ideas are permitted on this site.

No, they are not. As a queer man, I have zero tolerance toward anyone who thinks my queerness is something I shouldn't be proud or open about.

I'm comfortable with the idea that someone might oppose the logo because they value realism, or think of it as a breach of the "in-character" narrative. That's a discussion we can have.

But anyone who opposes the logo because they oppose LGBTQ pride can go fuck themselves.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 18:15 by The Great Hippo Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

A Random Day 08 Jun 2018 18:15

We include people who have no problem including others. I don't want to include someone who doesn't want to include LGBTQ people. So your post is baffling to me because it implicitly says that I need to tolerate intolerance and prejudice. And if I assume that you aren't intolerant yourself, then I have to wonder why you're okay with it.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 18:29

This is what I mean.
To exclude intolerant people is a form of intolerance. Everyone has an opinion. We cannot condemn people for excluding others only to exclude people ourselves.
The mentality should not be, “eye for an eye”, rather it should be, “ do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
If someone has a different opinion that is considered intolerant, but they don’t let their opinions affect how they interact on the site, they shouldn’t be treated like plague victims.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Scorpion451 08 Jun 2018 21:05

To exclude intolerant people is a form of intolerance.

In the sense that having zero tolerance for hate is vital to civil society, yes, it is intolerant. Its something that should not be tolerated.

they shouldn’t be treated like plague victims.

But they should, because they are. Hate is a disease, and should be treated like one. There is no cruelty in quarantining the sick to protect the well.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 21:52

There is a difference between political hate (overused internet buzzword used to dehumanize those with unpopular opinions) and actual hate (to want bad things to happen to a group of people for no other reason than they exist. Helpful distinction.
The KKK is an actual hate group.
Disagreeing with the policies of a certain group for religious or philosophical reasons is not hate. These people should be allowed to speak and share there opinion.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

kinchtheknifeblade 08 Jun 2018 22:00

I think that they shouldn’t be allowed to speak and shouldn’t be welcome. I’ll double down and say they should feel ashamed and afraid to join the community.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 22:19

Why should they be silent?
Why should they be ashamed? Why should they be afraid? Apply your statement to any other group and it becomes unacceptable.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Zyn 09 Jun 2018 01:18

Apply your statement to any other group and it becomes unacceptable.

Hate is hate. I don't think we get anywhere by presuming that discouraging hate is the same thing as discouraging love.

ETA: posted this before the stop order. Do we want to collapse the relevant posts to make it clear that the conversation has been stopped?

Last edited on 09 Jun 2018 01:21 by Zyn Show more

Admin Post - Closed

Decibelles 09 Jun 2018 01:24

I would prefer to leave these posts up so people can see the discussion that has taken place. But I'll edit a mini stop-order in ooblex's post for added clarity.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Tiefling 08 Jun 2018 22:02

You're not subtle.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Azraile 18 Jun 2018 05:21

[REDACTED]

It would help if you had a comment about the thread being closed at the top, if your going to leave a thread open to post to everyone but not allow it. >.<

Last edited on 18 Jun 2018 05:27 by Azraile Show more

Admin Post - Info - Closed

Zyn 18 Jun 2018 05:27

Please note that an admin has called a discussion stop to this line of conversation, a few days ago. If you have any particular complaints, you may send them to me or another member of the site's Disciplinary Committee.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 18:29

This is the kind of "political" quarrel I was trying to avoid. I don't think this argument needs to at all address the agreeableness or disagreeableness of the specific sentiment concerned or to what degree the users of the site agree or disagree with the sentiment. Not only is it irrelevant, but it has the potential to stir strong emotional reaction and conflict that could be entirely avoided.

This is a question of atmospheric, aesthetic, narrative, and immersive disruption. The sentiment behind the alleged disruption is only pertinent insofar as the question of whether or not said sentiment (and/or the alleged disruption itself) is disruptive to the overarching atmosphere, aesthetics, narrative, and/or immersive qualities of the site as a whole.

Let's leave some pots unstirred, or at least stirred outside of this particular discussion. I'm not pointing fingers, just giving some words of caution to all the readers of and contributors to this discussion.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

The Great Hippo 08 Jun 2018 18:40

This is a question of atmospheric, aesthetic, narrative, and immersive disruption. The sentiment behind the alleged disruption is only pertinent insofar as the question of whether or not said sentiment (and/or the alleged disruption itself) is disruptive to the overarching atmosphere, aesthetics, narrative, and/or immersive qualities of the site as a whole.

I suspect there are methods to alleviate this if it genuinely disrupts your reading experience; I would not be surprised to find there are multiple ways to read SCP pages without the header image (or, in fact, the header at all). In fact, pursuing these options will likely increase the quality of your experience (because they'll involve removing other distracting elements which might negatively impact your immersion — such as the sidebar).

I think, overall, the benefit of making it clear to the community that we're welcoming toward members of the LGBTQ community is of greater value than the maintenance of an already semi-broken immersive experience. Think of it like the Bat-Signal: Yeah, it's distracting and a little strange, but the benefit here is that you'll get a bunch of Batmans LGBTQ people to show up and fight crime write/read articles on the site.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 19:02

Oh, I know, but thank you for pointing it out anyway. I actually like the non-rainbow banner; the flat color scheme and plain text that I've grown to be familiar with adds to the experience in a small but non-zero way.

But for the average Joe, and especially newcomers, they are only exposed to the default layout. Since this is the case, I think it would be best to preserve the atmosphere in the default layout; the fact that the atmosphere is already "semi-broken" doesn't really make me feel motivated to break it further, nor does it discourage me from attempting to repair it.

Also, I can certainly appreciate the positive effects on users, potential users, and the larger site-wide community, but I think those effects can be achieved by other means, and as such should not necessarily overrule legitimate concerns with the negative effects, at least on their own. Basically, we could have our cake and eat it too if we served it in a different way.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

The Great Hippo 08 Jun 2018 19:23

It's difficult to oversell the positivity that placing a pride symbol on the top of your website produces. You can expend several hundred thousand words to assure LGBTQ communities that this is a place open to their lives and their experiences — but you'll never inspire a fraction of the faith that a rainbow colored SCP logo produces.

I understand where you're coming from, and I don't think you're anti-LGBTQ; I also think you probably don't understand how reassuring it can be to see something like that for someone who's used to occupying spaces where their identity is under perpetual attack. It's like being lost at sea during war, spotting an approaching ship — and then seeing that they're flying your flag.

It means a tremendous amount — and while I understand and respect the damage it does to your immersion, that immersion is no where near as important to me as signaling to others that this community is a positive, open, and welcoming place.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Croquembouche 08 Jun 2018 19:57

Thank you for this perspective.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 18:41

I was just stating my reasoning as well. It was never my intention to start any sort of political debate as this is not the place for it. I do think my post was met with a bit of an unprofessional overreaction by certain parties. I appreciate everyone’s arguments but it may need to be toned down a bit.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Zyn 09 Jun 2018 00:44

I do think my post was met with a bit of an unprofessional overreaction

What sort of professional reaction were you expecting?

Re: Rainbow Emblem

AimEngie 09 Dec 2018 18:28

First I would like to mention that as a member of the LGBTQ community I couldn't care less about whether you put a flag up or not. I'll be pan with or without the sign up. To me it came as pandering (pun unintended). However, saying people who don't like it can leave is not ok by any means. I get that people disagree with our community due to religious, political, or personal reasons. Hate speech is one thing but alienating a group of our users for having a different opinion is the opposite of the inclusive community we try to create.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

MayD 08 Jun 2018 18:06

I am agreeing with everything Hippo said, but I also want to adress this:

Furthermore, I think this is the only time we’ve done something like this.

All of our social media accounts will change their profile pictures to an LGBTQ+ Foundation logo for pride month. This was simply the first year we have done it on the site.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 18:14

While I agree with your point that the only innate shared characteristic of the users that this site represents is some kind of appreciation of creative writing related to the admittedly somewhat nebulous SCP Foundation universe, and so the site as a whole (meaning, the "skeleton" or "foundation" with a lower-case "f" of the site, part of which is the banner at the top of every page on the site, including the emblem on that banner) should not be a platform for any view or idea other than that shared characteristic, I think it can be slippery to delve into arguments concerning whether people agree or disagree with the sentiment behind the emblem change. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that arguments that are valid and sound that do not even take agreement or disagreement with the sentiment into account may fare better in the long run.

The background to the emblem should be left out next year if not removed this year even if every last user of the site agreed with the sentiment behind the background, in my opinion. Same goes for any other agenda-driven (agreeable agendas and disagreeable agendas alike) or non-agenda-driven but still disruptive change to the base platform of the site (like the top banner) that is not necessarily pertinent to all aspects of the SCP Foundation narrative universe, whether it be a rainbow background to the emblem on the top banner in celebration of Pride Month, an oblique reference to a specific non-Heritage SCP article, information on the migration routes of dolphins, instructions on how to tie a tie, a celebration of some real-world or non-baseline-canon event, or a clip art cheeseburger.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 19:11 by ooblex Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Zyn 09 Jun 2018 00:52

What if staff introduced a wiki usertool, à la Night Mode, that maintained the "standard" display? That way, people who prefer immersion can set their own preference without asking that the site change a simple display thing that a lot of people like.

Granted, I personally would like to see more artsy things done with the banner, since at least one of our international branches did a really awesome setup for Halloween I think? and I feel like the sense of community shouldn't be considered less important than immersion. We wouldn't have this site if not for the community.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

fieldstone 08 Jun 2018 18:27

I want to be part of a community with intellectual diversity that includes everyone, not just those like me. People who don't appreciate the ideas behind pride month are perfectly entitled to their opinions and feelings, but will have to live with the reality that the site admins made a call for a cause they support.

As for why this event and not others, the pressures of having to keep secrets for fear of rejection is a big factor in gender and sexuality issues. People identifying themselves openly is, to me, more about preventing people going through the same things from having to feel alone or ashamed than it is about confrontation with others who would reject us. It's doing a potential service to LGBT community members that far outweighs the potential harm caused to others who might be offended by their presence. I know it would have meant a lot to me as a younger person to have seen something like this here.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

DoctorPhenomenon 08 Jun 2018 18:34

Thank you fieldstone for your response which holds an opinion without threatening or diminishing someone else’s opinion. It is ultimately the staffs’ decision. I was simply stating a dissenting opinion. Thank you for listening.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 17:50

The emblem will not change this year, and we are likely to do it next year.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 18:32

OK, I won't burst a blood vessel over it. My position has been heard, and all I ask is that it be considered and rationally evaluated for its content.

It's the wrong move in my opinion, for the reasons I've already stated.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 18:33 by ooblex Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Decibelles 08 Jun 2018 18:34

It shall be done. ^.^

Re: Rainbow Emblem

ooblex 08 Jun 2018 18:42

Merci

Arrivederci

P.S. spaghetti

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 18:43 by ooblex Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

PeppersGhost 08 Jun 2018 18:35

Just headcanon that GAW hacked the Foundation database.

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Prototype_Toaster 08 Jun 2018 18:42

If GAW hacked it, it'd look more like this

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Golden506 08 Jun 2018 20:03

Don't know exactly where to post in this clusterfuck of a debate, but I'm just going to register my opinion that it might be best to keep the logo consistent after pride month ends, not for any decorative reason, but just because there's always going to be people that complain about it and start up another clusterfuck of a debate. It might just be best to have something on the site news about it and maybe a LGBTQ+ mini-contest or something, just to keep from stirring up stuff like this.

Just my opinion though.

e: Okay, looked like Deci put her foot down before I posted. Nevermind, I guess.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2018 20:04 by Golden506 Show more

Admin Post - Closed

Decibelles 09 Jun 2018 01:17

While staff appreciates this discussion, the full range of opinions and points one can really discuss on it has been explored. To prevent this thread from sliding down any further (and speaking from experience as a former chat admin, discussions that look like they're going downhill almost universally go downhill), this discussion will be closed. Any points not discussed here are fine to bring up next month, after Pride Month is finished.

This is a closed staff post. Do not reply to this post for any reason if you are not staff.

Last edited on 09 Jun 2018 01:17 by Decibelles Show more

Re: Rainbow Emblem

Rin Aldrin 15 Jun 2018 23:05

[REDACTED]

Last edited on 15 Jun 2018 23:07 by Rin Aldrin Show more

Re: Complaints Thread

Petrograd 10 Jun 2018 07:40

So, as far as I can see, there haven't been any Site News updates in 2018.

I fully respect that nobody is getting paid for this and they're difficult to write (especially with the increased rate of content), but they were very useful, and it's weird for them to be increasingly outdated given that the hub is still pinned on the sidebar.

Re: Complaints Thread

Decibelles 10 Jun 2018 08:26

I was originally too busy for it, so I handed it off to A Random Day, and now he's too busy, so it's passed back onto me.

I think sometime in the next two or three months, I shall figure out how to start the site news again. I'll only return to it once I find a much easier, and slightly-more automated way of doing it. Doing everything by hand is what helped kill it, but I do not want to skimp on the quality of these at all, and want to have as much personality in them as they did.

Re: Complaints Thread

Shaggydredlocks 10 Jun 2018 15:00

tretter does not match any existing user name built a useful code for us to use for somewhat automating the news. I've got it sitting in my Author page.

It not only grabs all content from a given month broken up by type (goi, scp, etc), but it grabs the author as well. It's formatted in such a way (including relevant punctuation/spacing) that all that really needs to be done is the addition of titles and blurbs (and I'm no code wizard, but would it be possible to tweak it to grab titles as well?).

Last edited on 10 Jun 2018 15:30 by Shaggydredlocks Show more

LGBT+ POC Symbol

Admiral Jezza 21 Jun 2018 19:39

Just gonna mention that the new symbol is very out-of-place for a site about a cold and unemotional foundation that is supposed to contain paranormal/anomalous entities, and yes I get that you're trying to show support for what you perceive to be "oppressed or unrepresented minorities" and all, but I as a bisexual Black man see it coming off as patronizing in all honesty.

All in all I'm not a big fan of identity politics and stuff like this as it just appears to be people pandering to minority groups so they can pat themselves on the back and feel good, (not to mention using us for votes), but hey I guess that's just my two cents on the matter.

If you're gonna lambaste me for not fitting your mold of what opinions a bi black guy should have then go for it.

Re: LGBT+ POC Symbol

Shaggydredlocks 21 Jun 2018 21:15

for a site about a cold and unemotional foundation that is supposed to contain paranormal/anomalous entities

I would say "This isn't that organisation, it's a writing site, that's not a valid critisism", but when we have our main page warning to sort-of include the site itself as part of the narrative (ditto for all of our Information pages, which are written primarily from an in-universe standpoint), I can understand the confusion regarding the in-universe justification for the logo change.

As much as I love the feel of the front-page warning and the tone it sets for the site, maybe it's best to do away with it and other flavorful in-universe elements and present the site itself solely as a writing website.

---

Alternatively, perhaps next year we could reinforce the logo with a "mission statement" on the main page to justify the logo from an in-universe standpoint. Just because the SCP is cold and unemotionaal does not mean that they can't show support for LGTBQ personnel, and that could stand to be reflected in a visible way.

Re: LGBT+ POC Symbol

(account deleted) 21 Jun 2018 22:08

The front page does still accurately represent the mainstream perception of what the Foundation is supposed to be, conceptually. The fact that it does not need to be that, and has in fact been altered and subverted innumerable times by innumerable-er authors is what's not reflected there.

It doesn't sound like it'd be such a bad idea to ditch the IC CSS, seeing as how its focus on reader immersion was/is such a commonly cited complaint during the fiasco.

Re: LGBT+ POC Symbol

MrAnakinSpecter 21 Jun 2018 22:13

If you're gonna lambaste me for not fitting your mold of what opinions a bi black guy should have then go for it.

Why would anyone do that?! If someone gave you the impression that we would treat you unkindly, you are free to message someone on harassment staff. Or, if you just want to talk, you can PM me. (:

Re: Complaints Thread

SevenColoredCat 25 Jun 2018 14:58

So, about 2721… Is the staff going to do anything about the obvious brigading, such as removing the most obviously malicious ratings?

Regardless of one's thoughts on it, a previously highly-rated article accumulating hundreds of downvotes in a week after some alt-right dude made a video about it certainly does not indicate that the downvotes are honest are in good faith.

I'd just like to know that at least something is being done about the whole thing.

Re: Complaints Thread

A Random Day 25 Jun 2018 15:09

We are evaluating solutions at this time. Rest assured that we are not going to do nothing about it.

Re: Complaints Thread

Prototype_Toaster 25 Jun 2018 15:10

I don't think full on vote removal is possible. But I think staff could disregard votes in certain situations like if a troll uses multiple accounts to downvote one article they hate a lot

Re: Complaints Thread

kinchtheknifeblade 25 Jun 2018 15:11

No, it is possible.

Re: Complaints Thread

sirpudding 25 Jun 2018 15:13

Votes from deleted/banned accounts have been purged before.

Re: Complaints Thread

Prototype_Toaster 25 Jun 2018 15:21

What about votes from people who legitimately contributed to the site and then deleted their account? Would they get grouped in with the others?

Re: Complaints Thread

sirpudding 25 Jun 2018 15:54

1. I suspect that purging banned accounts and purging deleted accounts are seperate, so not necessarily.
2. Those votes already don't count, removing them from the total is mostly just cosmetic.

Re: Complaints Thread

kinchtheknifeblade 25 Jun 2018 15:10

I think they’re planning on purging some of the votes. It remains to be seen how many will get taken down and if it happens again.

Re: Complaints Thread

ThomasTheWest 01 Jul 2018 12:40

Probably not. Many people had legitimate complaints, and others simply downvoted becuase they can and are entitled to such an opinion. The LGBSCP video didn't tell anyone to downvote the video, it simply showcased it and its…questionable quality to many. There are many conflicting opinions on it, and even if a vocal minority doesn't want it to be downvoted, it should be downvoted. If people have opinions they will make them known, and many people find it annoying when admins and mods start closing down threads.
As for 'trolling', that is debatable. Many people in the discussion were genuine and putting honest criticisms in good faith. Until the discussion was closed when 'no one added to the discussion'.
Like the rules state, even if an article is a day or a year old and it reaches the -10 votes threshold, it has a 24 hour window. Just sayin

Re: Complaints Thread

Rioghail 27 Jun 2018 12:19

A minor UI quibble - the scrolldown menu for Groups of Interest at the top of every page does not match up to the list on the Groups of Interest page. The scrolldown is missing Alexylva University, Gru Division P, and the Horizon Initiative. The Fifth Church and The Factory are listed in the wrong order, breaking alphabetization, and the Factory is anomalously listed as 'Factory Hub' rather than just 'The Factory' as the others are. Is this an oversight, or have some of the groups been deliberately left off the scrolldown?

Last edited on 27 Jun 2018 12:21 by Rioghail Show more

Re: Complaints Thread

DrMagnus 27 Jun 2018 12:45

No. There's a maximum number of elements that can be added to the top bar's elements, and our GoI count has simply exceeded them.

I think it chooses randomly on every load, but I can't confirm that. I don't know how wikidot handles rendering the page.

Re: Complaints Thread

Dargoo Faust 01 Jul 2018 06:14

The termination log for SCP-682 should probably have the entry with 2722 removed.

Re: Complaints Thread

Atlas Alias 05 Jul 2018 23:00

SCP 3382 is a very low quality SCP that ruins the experience of a faux scientific anomaly database. Can this SCP be deleted and replaced with an empty blank slate? I was looking through random SCPs, and this one is by far the lowest quality SCP I have EVER seen. If you want to understand how truly lacking in effort it is, here it is.

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-3382

Re: Complaints Thread

Shaggydredlocks 05 Jul 2018 23:04

This is something that will probably be taken care of according to deletions policy. http://www.scp-wiki.net/deletions-guide

Discussion about the SCP should take place on its page.

Re: Complaints Thread

sirpudding 05 Jul 2018 23:11

As of this posting it is only a half hour old and at -9. Be patient. Nowadays around twenty pages are deleted as soon as they are eligible, every day.

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