SCP-1851-EX / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-1851-EX.

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Eskobar 15 Dec 2011 04:10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

"If any one or more of them, at any time, are inclined to raise their heads to a level with their master or overseer, humanity and their own good requires that they should be punished until they fall into that submissive state which was intended for them to occupy. They have only to be kept in that state, and treated like children to prevent and cure them from running away." —Samuel Cartwright

I have many explanations for why I wrote this. In short: it's the most horrific thing I could think of, and it happened. It's explained.

Last edited on 15 Dec 2011 04:14 by Eskobar Show more

AgentWilson 15 Dec 2011 17:37

You definitely succeeded in the "horrifying" aspect. Sheesh.

10 years later

cabbage patch 27 Dec 2021 17:20

And your story is still the 'Untouchable'. It's never mentioned in best ofs, cross-posts, or world building. Everything I need to know about a writer is displayed within their reaction to your scp.

MrMan098 15 Dec 2011 04:40

Oh, oh dear God. This is like the Nazi thing, but… the Foundation working to literally contain slaves? Then again, the Foundation isn't and wasn't always an "enlightened" organization, but still. Wow. I guess when you only have the science of the time, you make do with the science of the time.

One quibble: hadn't the miasma theory of disease been thoroughly discredited by the time this article takes place (1830s-1850s)?

Eskobar 15 Dec 2011 04:48

I read a book (The Ghost Map, it's really good, if you're wondering) about a cholera epidemic in London in the 1850s. That book describes the impact that miasma had on public containment efforts of disease, namely keeping people from focusing on contaminated water and making them be obsessed with "oh god does it smell bad?" So based on that, miasma was still taken seriously in public.

That said, there is an argument that the ASCI (for all of its many, many, MANY flaws) would still have been more scientifically advanced than the rest of the country, so they may have been less into the theory than I'm describing.

The way I see it (headcanonically), the Foundation would have needed vast amounts of wealth to operate in any time. That means its central membership would be upper-class white men. This is, in a realistic sense, the sort of things upper-class white 19th century men believed in, by and large.

Burgess Shale 26 Nov 2015 21:13

The fact that the foundation aligns itself with the "science" of the time adds to the sense of dread and doubt a lot of the articles build on. This is fucking brilliant honestly.

Salman Corbette 15 Dec 2011 05:00

My hat off to you sir. I myself was considering making Mad hatter's disease an EX, but I think Draeptomania works much better. +1

AdminBright 15 Dec 2011 05:35

This makes me uncomfortable. And I love it.

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Admin, SCP Wiki

Bland 15 Dec 2011 05:36

I hate this and am upvoting, so you've done a good job at it. A few thoughts:

Note #3 is a little confusing - I'm interpreting that as "Yea, we backed the South because we had slave, but now that they've lost we're backing the North."

Nota Bene: Given the recent political developments, particularly the recent war between the states and its implications for the likely future of Negro servitude, alternate plans are being composed for the future of the Drapetomaniac Class, upon which our research has become rather dependent. —Director Wilson, noted October 4th 1862

In 1862, it was the CURRENT war between the states (or “this awful war” or “Civil War” - "The War of Northern Aggression" is used only in modern times and Google is awesome!)

Last edited on 15 Dec 2011 05:36 by Bland Show more

Eskobar 15 Dec 2011 05:44

For the first note: The way I see it, the ASCI would have seen itself being above the political strife, officially. Those areas that allowed slavery, the ASCI owned and used them there (many of those states being Unionist during the war); where they didn't own slaves, they recognized the benefits of slavery for themselves. (Fun fact, that was also a large part of Northern Democratic support among lower-class laborers between 1828 and 1850 or so.) They didn't back the North or the South, but their official line would have been for the bigger dog, with the willingness to switch sides whenever convenient.

I wrote "recent" meaning "recently begun", but I see the confusion. And "The War of Northern Aggression" makes my eyes bleed, so no, I'll not be using that one.

Bland 15 Dec 2011 05:47

I have a friend that uses "The War of Northern Aggression". I don't hit him because he's MUCH bigger then I am.

tunedtoadeadchannel 15 Dec 2011 07:13

I'm from alabama, and I've never heard anyone say that but douchey hipsters being ironic.

Okay, so.

This is damn well written, believable, and actually plausible for its period. That said, at no point does the page specify that it has been debunked outside the page title, and for that I must downvote.

You see, SCP-EX entries are SCPs that have been explained or rendered inert. While you know and I know that IRL no one believes this spew in the present age, the page never says that. Without a segment detailing how and why it was proved incorrect, this page stands alone in its canon as an SCP type article saying that black people are inferior in the most blunt and ignorant way possible, and I don't think that's okay. Poor taste aside, the way this article is formatted implies that the Foundation continues to believe this.

Add a disclaimer, in character, not out, and it will be a -EX. As it stands, it's just racism as an SCP, and my downvote reflects that.

Last edited on 15 Dec 2011 07:18 by tunedtoadeadchannel Show more

Pig_catapult 15 Dec 2011 09:28

Thank you for putting a finger on what was bothering me so much about this, aside from the obvious.

Edit: I shall be abstaining from voting on this one at all, however, even if the disclaimer is made. I'm not personally comfortable with making a call on whether or not the article is in poor taste, because I'm not a PoC and feel that my voting either way would entail talking over them and abusing my white privilege.

I know that not everyone here shares my convictions, and I won't try to stop anyone from voting if they want to, but I felt it would be dishonest for me to leave this comment as-is in a way that would imply I'd give an upvote if a certain change was made.

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Piffy is an SCP Foundation Moderator, Lv. 9001 Squishy Wizard, and Knight of the Red Pen.

Last edited on 15 Dec 2011 09:56 by Pig_catapult Show more

tunedtoadeadchannel 16 Dec 2011 10:13

You're not a what?

Bland 16 Dec 2011 13:23

POC=Person Of Color

Miguel Pimentel 24 Nov 2012 23:36

I understand this sentiment. It's heartfelt and a sincere way of showing how you feel. That said, as a person of color (Hispanic, actually) I honestly feel that a fictional article where a fictional entity expresses disgust over terrible things that another fictional entity has been doing isn't really all that bad. My understanding of White Privilege is that it's simply accepting the overriding culture that holds white males in higher regard than anyone else. If the article were garbage, you wouldn't be praising yourself by saying so. If it were great, you wouldn't be making amends by upvoting it.

It's seems to me as one of those situations where color can be put aside with regards to voting. Then again, I tend to act on a "good faith" approach to the whole thing. I see no reason to play the "race card" unless it's obvious that race is what it's all about.

So, in a long-winded way I'm saying upvote or downvote not on the color of the Drapetomatic Class but on the content of the article's character.

Eskobar 15 Dec 2011 14:19

Huh. The note at the beginning was supposed to reflect an adequate amount of ick at the whole thing, but I guess I see where you're coming from. Edit forthcoming…

AlecKahmas 16 Dec 2011 01:10

Yeah, the note specifically states that the document was nullified during the merger. The O5 note is fine for dramatic purposes, but I had no illusions about this being a reflection of acceptable practice for the current Foundation when the preface specifically states that it is not.

minmin 15 Dec 2011 14:19

Absolutely horrible. I couldn't bear to read it. Luckily, this is the SCP Foundation. +1.

agatharights 15 Dec 2011 17:04

Upvoted with extreme what the fuck, man.

Sorts 15 Dec 2011 17:32

This doesn't scare me, it just makes me sad.

Also makes me take the Foundation a little less seriously. Not that it is in the least bit unbelievable but… it's a Very Special Episode of the SCP Foundation.

ed_montague 15 Dec 2011 21:46

You bastard.

I mean that in a friendly way, of course. It makes sense that the Foundation would have records of stuff on hand that got seriously debunked because they were patently untrue, not because an explanation or cure was found. Very nice article. I'm slightly scared of what goes on in your head.

ChazzK 15 Dec 2011 22:12

Either it was added after some people posted, or I'm the only one that saw the note at the very top…

THIS IS NOT A FOUNDATION DOCUMENT. This is a Foundation record of a document belonging to one of the parent-groups that would later merge/be folded into what we now know as the SCP Foundation. The views and opinions portrayed herein, etc. etc.

Kind of like "Global Abusement Corporation was known to deliberately circumvent EPA standards in pursuit of profit; it later underwent severe overhaul and Worldwide Economic Advancement now tries to not destroy the environment any more than it absolutely has to."

EDIT: Forgot about the last couple of footnotes; MOST of it isn't Foundation material.

Last edited on 15 Dec 2011 22:15 by ChazzK Show more

Eskobar 16 Dec 2011 02:46

The portion of the document pertaining to the "phenomenon" is ASCI documentation. As soon as they merge with the other groups to form the larger Foundation, it's like the bigger brother looking at a psychotic younger brother and saying "what the fuck have you been doing all this time?" The Foundation as we know it has nothing to do with this, and tries to purge or eliminate as many of the perpetrators as are still alive

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