SCP-3477 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-3477.

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stormbreath 11 Sep 2017 01:06

This is a weird SCP about thirty-four (or more?) different versions of the same man that have found themselves working together.

Thank you to Leveritas and Zogip2 for looking this over.

EDIT: The image is a public domain image sourced from here. EDIT: This is not public domain. It is Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.1 Australia Licence. It is still a valid image for use on the wiki.

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If you liked this thing and would like to read some comments about it, or check out other things I've written, head to my author page for more!

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day

Last edited on 14 Feb 2018 00:48 by stormbreath Show more

fieldstone 11 Sep 2017 01:19

I really like this anomaly, and Harold as a character in general was a lot of fun. I feel like he might be too goofy for some, but it worked for me. The test logs were fun too, but I found the GoI callouts to be my least favorite parts - not as interesting as shark Harold or ghost Harold or fire Harold. Almost went back to neutral over it, but the meeting scene and ending got back on track. +1, and congratulations on finding something new to do with humanoids.

Modern_Erasmus 11 Sep 2017 01:25

I really dig the characterization and worldbuilding efforts. I was sold on an upvote as soon as the former O5 bombshell was revealed, and only enjoyed it further from there. Well done.

(account deleted) 11 Sep 2017 02:11

a group composed of intelligent dolphin

Intelligent dolphins?

SCP-3477-19 is noncorporeal humanoid entity

A noncorporeal entity?

I have issues with the conceit that each would react in precisely the same way to stimulus excepting those that involve their immortality of choice. Each would've undergone mental and physical changes as a result of these alterations, and surely as they continued developing in different directions they imbibed different ideologies, personalities and beliefs. They're different buildings working off of the same type of foundation - unless I'm missing something intrinsically essential to the nature of the fact that there is more than one of them.

Other than that is fucking weird in a way I really like. It's a bona fide anomaly, in that the starting conditions make little sense but you proceed from there logically and the story ends up being this epic story about mortality and human fragility. I think I love this? The individual stories are just so out-there and entertaining. One Sarkic Harold, one Churchie, fighting each other in Australia. I can think of nothing else out there quite like this. It makes me think of Gazers, only because that one was also so bizarre and barely coherent it ended up being glorious.

All the +1's, this is excellent.

Last edited on 11 Sep 2017 02:12 by (account deleted) Show more

stormbreath 11 Sep 2017 21:30

I have issues with the conceit that each would react in precisely the same way to stimulus excepting those that involve their immortality of choice. Each would've undergone mental and physical changes as a result of these alterations, and surely as they continued developing in different directions they imbibed different ideologies, personalities and beliefs. They're different buildings working off of the same type of foundation - unless I'm missing something intrinsically essential to the nature of the fact that there is more than one of them.

I'll concede that this is one of the weaker aspects of the article, and admit that it's largely driven by out-of-universe concerns. (The group interview would not have been possible if I had to write 34 characters rather than 1.) That said, I imagine the same reaction to stimulus as being both part of the anomaly generated 34 copies, and also as a result of the fact that Harold was already 59 when this happened, and that his later experiences wouldn't change who he as much as they would for someone younger.

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day

Dachannien 12 Sep 2017 15:45

The more I thought about that part of the SCP, the more I liked it in particular.

My headcanon for this story solves Kakroom's concern (at least in my opinion - they may disagree) by saying that all instances of 3477 were anomalous from the start. In particular, I'm thinking they're not exact copies, but are instead imperfect and incomplete. They all independently try to mimic what the real Harold would have done. In a way, maybe they're both not very good at imitating the real Harold, and a little too good at it. They talk in unison because it's a perfect recitation of things Harold might say, even though they're behaving in a way that's completely unnatural since the real Harold would never have been confronted with dozens of duplicates of himself.

This is motivated by additional headcanon that goes along with some other stories around here that say that immortality isn't actually possible, and that every attempt to become immortal always has some undesired outcome, despite never actually granting immortality. Maybe the 3477s can only gain "immortality" because they're artificial in the first place. Perhaps the duplicates were created and directed to undertake a variety of techniques for immortality as part of some experiment directed by someone else (maybe even the original Harold, on a quest to gain immortality for himself in a way that actually works without being completely awful to endure)?

RJB_R 11 Sep 2017 02:20

Man, I was all set to enjoy this as just a bizarre slice of weirdness but the last three logs just didn't click for me the way the logs of the instances did. It made all the disparate entities feel artificial, their interactions felt kind of forced.

I was expecting something to escalate, maybe like what SCP-1454 did with giving identical clones a fresh personality, but instead it just retreads what's already been established for another thousand words and then calls it quits.

The note at the end is very generic and it frankly feels like this article lost what was making it unique and original about halfway through. I love the idea of the former Austrailian Prime Minister being an anomaly but apart from the altered versions this just doesn't make the most of an awesome concept.

It could have been brilliant, but for now it's just a major letdown. Downvoted but I hope this gets reworked sometime. I'd love to see a version of this that fixes its flaws.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!

Rigen 11 Sep 2017 02:42

I liked it, but the part where the Foundation puts them in the same room just feel, IDK, lolFoundation-y? like, what would you do if there's two of their immortality method clashed with each other? heck there even been a precedent with the sarkic and cogwork ones. And why would the Foundation told them in the interview that "there are others like you"? I don't see any reason for that.

Neutral.

stormbreath 11 Sep 2017 21:32

Well, I tried to justify the group interview as much as I could. The interview was originally conceived as something similar to the Ypsilanti Expirement (where the three men who thought they were Jesus were brought together), and then I tried to think of what should happen next. I settled on an escape, both because it logically flowed from the expirement, and provided a nice ending to the story.

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day

Shaggydredlocks 11 Sep 2017 04:44

So, I'm pretty into this so far. Gonna make comments as I go:

+ show block

Instances may be informed of the existance of other instances, but are not to be allowed contact with other instances.

Existence. And the amount of 'instance' make this read awkwardly. I'd suggest a tweak like "Instances may be informed of each other's existence , but are not to be allowed contact."

and here:

Each specific instance of SCP-3477 has specialized containment procedures relating specifically to that instance.

"Each specific instance of SCP-3477 has specialized containment procedures relating to its specific properties."

For full containment details specific to each instance, consult Document-3477 #1.

"For specialized containment details, consult Document-3477 #1."

SCP-3477 is a large collection of anomalous humanoids, each claiming to be the 17th Prime Minister of Australia Harold Holt (henceforth referred to as SCP-3477-0).

"large" is superfluous; it can be cut.

While each instance of SCP-3477 is different in anomalous properties

"While each instance displays unique anomalous properties"

For example, each instance of SCP-3477 claims to have contacted individuals related to their chosen method of gaining immortality on . The majority of individuals that they have claimed to met with have been found and confirmed the stories of their respective SCP-3477 instances.

Reads as incredibly redundant given the sentence this footnote it's sourced to. The next part could begin:

"e.g. SCP-3477-8 claims to have met with Ottaviano Medici (a Marshall, Carter and Dark salesman) on that November 20th, 1967 at their personal house."

3477-19 seems like a good place to link SCP-2736, just sayin'.

Also, I've been on fire for the past sixty years.

I just died! This is great.

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I like the first interview, but I would maybe change the instance log to remove or replace -34, so the interview comes across a bit fresher (not further detailing an instance that was already introduced). Agreeing in that it falls off for me after that - while the meeting itself is entertaining, it seems like forcing the idiot-ball onto the SCPF, specifically to set-up the containment breach…which itself was rather trite.

stormbreath 11 Sep 2017 21:36

I've made a lot of the minor grammatical phrasing revisions you suggested, thank you for those.

I could link 2736 at -19, but I tried to balance the number of purely original entries with those that were derived from GoIs/other SCPs. The concepts are similar, but not exact, and I want to still have some purely original entries.

I'll consider removing -34 from the table of entries, and seeing how that would flow.

As for the escape attempt, it was originally intended as the progression of Harold's story from the interview: I thought of the interview first, then decided the best place to take the story would be them escaping.

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can I get some nice "no signatures on my forum"
sigma-9 css machine broke
understandable have a nice day

The cat is both alive and dead

cosmic42 11 Sep 2017 10:15

I really like this story. It made me hypothesise that whatever he did to become immortal opened up a wormhole to 34 alternate universes and all the other immortal Harolds fell into this one. Kind of like a wormhole… but a funnel to capture all quantum possibilities.

There is some fun quantum choice stuff going on here. At the point he did whatever magic he did, that congregated all the quantum choices into one reality and dumped them into our universe.

Dunno if I am explaining this right. Imagine playing roulette and performing some quantum funny business, so that suddenly 37 roulette tables appear and the ball lands on each number possible. Table 1 lands on 1, table 2 lands on 2… etc up to 37. Or opening up Schroedinger's box and finding 2 cats, one alive and one dead.

Last edited on 11 Sep 2017 10:23 by cosmic42 Show more

Re: The cat is both alive and dead

Rigen 11 Sep 2017 10:53

Or opening up Schroedinger's box and finding 2 cats, one alive and one dead.

More like, closing the box and then two box appeared, each containing the probable outcome

TL333s 11 Sep 2017 12:11

I really love this, and I'm not sure I can get all the reasons why out in a coherent manner.

First, your subject matter. I've been reading a lot about disappearances lately, and you can't get much more high-profile than the leader of a country. Always wondered what it must have been like to be Australian at that time. I mean, Americans have lost Presidents before, but we've always known why: someone shot 'em. To just have him vanish into the tide, that must have been terrifying.

Second, I would totally do this. >.> No, really, living forever sounds great, I fear death.

Third, I will say that I started getting a little apprehensive at the list of instances. I mean, in some ways, it's a laundry list of GoIs and other skips applied to this one guy. It does make the point that he's somehow attained immortality in every way imaginable, and I lost the apprehension by the end, but it's worth pointing out.

(Also, I've had an idea about people lighting themselves on fire and burning for an extended period of time for a while now. Maybe we can talk later.)

Lastly, I really like the "they all react the same". They aren't a hive-mind, that much is clear, and the fact that 13 and 14 greet each other differently in that big round-table meeting is what makes the log work. I feel like "what if they didn't turn out to be different people despite their different experiences" is somehow part of the anomaly as well.

So yeah, long ramble, a few typos, but neat article! +1

DrMagnus 11 Sep 2017 12:39

Good god, this is great. I'll echo TL333's sentiments on this one.

Jesus, this is some old-school, great skip writing.

+1

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