Scp-2234
http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/vincenti Here is my first scp.
EDIT:I have added the beginning of the test log, is the format ok or what would you recommend?
SCP-2234 "Playing murder"
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» SCP-2234 "Playing murder"
Summary:
My first scp! Constructive criticism is appreciated!
First, you need to stick this in a sandbox.
Second, you need a Special Containment Procedures section, above the description. That is where you tell us how it's contained. This guide, under the templates tab, shows you what your SCP should look like, and the other tabs contain all sorts of useful tips and tricks for a beginner.
Third, this SCP lacks a core narrative. What story are you trying to tell here? Remember- a modern SCP rarely succeeds on just being an X that does Y. Most tell a story, or show how it interacts with the world around it. I'd suggest you read more Series II and III articles, and see how the objects in those articles were used to create a story or how they impacted the eorld. I also want you to read SCP-674, which has a similar function to what you're trying to do here, and see how you can further distance the two. And I don't just mean in how they operate or look, but how they are used in a story.
Yeah, I've already read scp 674 and they are a bit related but in scp 674 it is for TV and video games. 674 is a toy, mine would be a device that causes the holder to go into a rage state, stabbing anyone and everyone.
would be a device that causes the holder to go into a rage state
And that just sucks all interest from your SCP. Compulsions are boring, so are rage states.
What story are you trying to tell here?
The story of a knife that causes the holder to think they've gone insane and are brutally murdering people but they aren't killing anyone but the people they "kill" can't stop them from "killing" more people.
That's not a story. That's a description of what the item does.
To compare…
The description of 674 is an old-school Nintendo Zapper that can "kill" fictional and real-life individuals that appear on screen, as percieved by the user. Such an event is permanent, and they percieve other individuals that were not "killed" in such a manner to react appropriately. These changes are more-or-less permanent, and a few individuals become somewhat aware of how it is happening.
The story of 674 is of a guy who think he's become a Kira-like figure, able to deal death from his living room. As the only information he receives is through his TV, he becomes a recluse, believing that his actions have turned the world into a dystopian nightmare and that the governments of the world are trying to find his location to end the threat. All of this is false, however, and most of the world doesn't know he exists. Eventually, he too dies under mysterious circumstances, in a way that mimics how others die when "attacked" by 674.
Well how do I tell a story for something like this?
Typically, it's a matter of having characters and plot. Have someone the readers care about, have something happen to them, and have them struggle to resolve it.
Unfortunately, we can't say, "Do X and you're done," because there is no specific X. It's more a question of thinking, "Hey, I've got this cool thing, why do I care?"
You can answer my questions below, but if you want a simpler way to start developing your story, try this and answer these:
- How did you come up with your idea? What made you say, "Aha! That would be cool!"
- Why is it cool? What do you want to do with it?
- Okay, awesome, now imagine that you've just done that thing. What's changed in your life? What's changed in other people's life? What happens now?
- Is that world after doing the thing the same as what you thought the world would be like at first? What's different?
- Why is it different? Is there a lesson here? Something we should be aware of?
About the whole not needing compulsion thing, how do I replace that with something else? Because it should cause them to want to do it, but a compulsion is boring.
Well, there's the problem. If it "should cause them to want to do it," then you've painted yourself into a corner, because it means "should compel them to do it," ultimately.
Now, you could do something like have a voice tempting them or whatever, but that's just as cheesy.
So, when I say get rid of the compulsion because it isn't helping you, I'm saying the knife shouldn't cause people to want to stab people. It's much more effective if people are stabbing others because they independently choose to.
So, why would they do that? Well, have you ever stabbed someone with a rubber knife? Have you ever wanted to? No compulsions are involved there and guess what, you're stabbing people anyway.
Also, think about the effects of the knife. Can you think of a reason why you'd stab someone with this knife, but not a real knife? Does knowing your victim is only dead to you and not to others make it more likely you'd choose to use it anyway?
You've got to think about the motivations of the characters, come up with a situation that allows them to explore these motivations, and come up with a reason why someone might independently choose to behave in the way you want them to behave. Then you've got your story.
The idea is similar to the pinwheels in any case, so maintaining the overlap is likely going to remain. As long as the narrative remains yours, however, it will be fine.
What is the narrative you're envisioning, by the way? What's the story you want to tell? Let's not worry about the details of how the knife works, yet. Let's focus on the story. Once we have the story, we'll know what abilities the knife needs.
I want it have possibly a test or two where the foundation does not know how to stop the holder, but is eventually apprehended and then I want the next test to have something go wrong and the testee to escape and get to a major city, stabs many people and then be apprehended but he remembers in great detail how he felt and what he did in an interview. Then I want one final test where they discover how to stop him consistently.
Awesome, now we're getting somewhere! Let's break it down.
So, what makes it so hard to stop the wielder? How can the wielder of the rubber knife manage to escape?
Our wielder makes it to a major city and just starts stabbing everyone. Why would the wielder do that? Does he have to be compelled by the knife, or does he just need to be someone who relishes the chance to stab everyone? Plenty of terrible people end up as D-class. Who could the wielder be?
What makes him hard to contain once he's in the city?
How is he eventually stopped?
Well I had written an entire huge message then my iPad crashed, damn it.
Ok so the first two tests are done on people who had no experience in any hand to hand or weapon to hand combat. Therefor they act as if the test is a game where them have to stop the people trying to stop him. They are apprehended much easier because they treat it like a game.
The third test is done on someone who was trained in Filipino Martial Arts(not known before the test) and he treats the test like a sparring match. He is able to stop the guards from disarming him. After a while in the city he is disarmed by someone with a history of fighting
Quick thought! Maybe the knife will take the form of the holders favorite kind of knife? And the reason why the third test has such problems disarming him is because his favorite knife is a karambit.(knife that is extremely difficult to disarm someone of)
Another idea! Maybe the person can only be damaged by a knife. It could make it to where the final fight would be more interesting.
The third test is done on someone who was trained in Filipino Martial Arts(not known before the test) and he treats the test like a sparring match.
Why would the Foundation be so dumb as to not do a thorough background search so they can keep important personnel, like the hard-to-replace security guards, safe?
Maybe the knife will take the form of the holders favorite kind of knife?
What if the holder doesn't have a favorite kind of knife? Also, you can have a favorite knife and still be shit at using it in a combat setting.
Another idea! Maybe the person can only be damaged by a knife. It could make it to where the final fight would be more interesting.
Or contrived. The more WOW IT IS SO STRONG IT MAKES YOU SO STRONG you stuff into the article, the more boring it becomes. Plus, we've got tons of knives and swords that are more interesting than this.
Well, he could have had a background in martial arts but not have informed anyone.
If the person doesn't have a favorite knife, it would become the knife most know about by the person. I mean, the knife they like the most doesn't have to be that effective, just their favorite knife. When the knife is brought to the foundation it is in the form shown in the picture. The first person who holds it favors a Bowie knife and is easily disarmed. The second person who holds it favors a balisong and is disarmed with moderate force. The third favors a karambit and is only disarmed after going and fighting many people in a city.
Well, he could have had a background in martial arts but not have informed anyone.
Which is why standard background checks, when done professionally and correctly, investigate more than just stuff the individual tells people.
The first person who holds it favors a Bowie knife and is easily disarmed. The second person who holds it favors a balisong and is disarmed with moderate force. The third favors a karambit and is only disarmed after going and fighting many people in a city.
I'm surprised none of these people started out with a butter knife or a Swiss Army Knife or something people in general would be more familiar with. Also, the fact that no one injured themselves while using the things seems like video game wish-fulfillment. Knifes (and all weapons) are dangerous, and that's why it's worth getting training to use them properly, hopefully because there's a pressing need rather than just a risky hobby mentality.
Also, the whole "namedrop a bunch of weaps from video games" approach is something I've seen a lot from new writers. See if you can focus on why the knife is more than what it is. Why should the reader care about this thing when there are lots of things just like it in terms of effects?
Well here's an idea, on the third test they had a martial arts expert in there to see if he could disarm the person. The person who was supposed to be tested gets a butter knife. The martial arts expert does and then holds the knife. He then has the effects of the knife.
The subjects have a basic understanding of how to hold a knife and stab it at people.
Also, if they hit themselves with the knife, the knife bends like rubber and they perceive themselves as fine.
To be honest, none of this sounds like new material. It could probably pass off as a Dungeons and Dragons item, or a wacky magical thing you'd find in a wizard's pawn shop.
If you're going to write about an item that has some sort of effect when used as a weapon, it's going to need some sort of background that makes it different from every other wacky magical object that's ever been written in tons of other stories.
Why does this knife exist? How did it come to exist?
But why did the Factory make it? It doesn't really seem like their M.O., especially given that they're into mass production.
Slapping on a GOI name is a pretty lazy way to go about the story.
Well would it be a good idea to have them have found a document detailing what they planned on making and what actually was made.
The document would state that they were trying to make a weapon that would change to be a weapon useful for the situation the holder was in.
The whole "very convenient piece of paper explains everything" approach has also been done many, many times, and some readers get bored when they see that.
trying to make a weapon that would change to be a weapon useful for the situation the holder was in.
And of all things, they went with knife rather than a blunt weapon, because… knives are cool? With any weapon, an untrained wielder runs the risk of injuring themselves. It's pretty hard to gauge objective "usefulness" when you've got so many variables for scenario and person. If a bear is following you, you'd probably be way better off dropping the knife for the bear to investigate so you can run away.
Again, what if someone doesn't know how to use a knife at all? What if they've got terrible arthritis that prevents them from holding a knife at all? What if they've never been in combat before, and having a weapon is useless?
"Thing that makes you fight good" is another idea that gets tossed around a lot.
To quote vezaz, "Get away from "type of object" or "sort of creature" and instead start thinking about stories you want to tell. Start looking for moments in your everyday life that give you pause, that are unusual, or that make you go off into a daydream. Then think about bringing the reader to that same moment."
People want to see more than a fancy magic item. What kind of "more" can this idea offer us?
Does the wielder even have to be any good? Sure, it gets in the hands of someone trained in knife combat, yes, you can use that in the story, but insisting that the wielder becomes a great knife fighter just so he can run around on a rampage is weakening the narrative big time.
Where are you getting the phrase "rage state" from?
Changed it, no long considered a "rage state"
That's cool and all, but so often I see the exact phrase "rage state" used in coldposts. I'm just curious where the phrase comes from, because I don't see it anywhere else.
So I'm still curious: where are you getting the phrase "rage state" from?
I just did a Google Ngram search:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=rage+state&year_start=1900&year_end=2016&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Crage%20state%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Crage%20state%3B%2Cc1
So it isn't totally unique to here, and appears to have peaked in the early 80s (although some of those are using "state" as in political geography).
Oh, I thought you didn't like to use of rage state because it is compulsory.
Well, I kind of don't, yes. It suggests that the human psyche has a toggle that can be set to a particular point to cause a specific behavior. If you do that, you're better off going into the horror that the human psyche can be toggled.
Otherwise, it feels like it just turns you into a zombie/video game enemy, and that's far less interesting.
Very intrigued, could you go deeper into explaination or how I could fix this?
The problems I see with the object as is are threefold.
First, there's the compulsion. It doesn't need it. Is there any particular reason that someone feels the need to run around stabbing people, for your story? If not, there's no need to include it. Let it work as it does, without the compulsion, it'll be fine. If your narrative requires the compulsion to exist, you haven't explained it.
Second, it kind of impinges on the idea of SCP-161. If it kills someone with respect to the wielder, but not to anyone else, then that's the one it's most similar to, in my opinion.
Third, read SCP-161 and SCP-674 in detail. They are both much longer than your draft, but that's because they both go into detail about the aftermath. 161 contains a twist to the effect that wasn't apparent at first. These sorts of details are crucial to the success of an article. As it stands, you've got a rubber knife that makes people run around and kill others. Make it important. Why do we care? Why shouldn't we just toss it in a locker in the Log of Anomalous Items and forget about it?
I would expand on this one. If you scrap it and start again, you might end up developing a similarly incomplete story, and then you haven't made any progress despite the extra work.
Here are some things you can think about:
- How would someone use this? What's the goal for the wielder?
- Why would this be created in the first place? Passive aggression? The desire to kill someone without actually killing them?
- What sort of feel are you going for with your item? What do you want your readers to feel once they're done reading the piece?
- Can this item be misused? What would misuse look like? What would happen?
- What happens if someone stabs himself with the knife?
The more you think about the repercussions of the existence of the object, and the more you're able to present those repercussions and difficulties, the better your final article will be. Think. Read. Research. Develop your ideas, your feelings, your overarching themes. That's the real work you need to put in.
ETA: Also, don't forget that you'll need to take the story in a final direction that's different from 161 and 674. If you find you can't, then you can scrap and start over, but be sure you know you can't, before you do scrap. The exercise in the development of your idea will be valuable in knowing what you'll need to do with the next idea.
Dude, I'm gonna give you some what of a base you should expand upon to give you a head start, the idea is interesting, it just needs to fleshed out.
Uhhh… I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, typeonegative43, and assume you're going to add more to this post later, because
the idea is interesting, it just needs to fleshed out
is pretty vague advice. What about the idea is interesting? What needs fleshing out, how should it be done, and why will the improve the piece?
Don't expect the author to automatically understand these sorts of things.
I know the one thing I definetly do need to expand on is the backstory and the testing. But, alas, I usually only write creatively whilst high. This should be tomorrow or tonight.
I usually only write creatively whilst high
Well, there's your problem.
Drugs don't increase your creativity. They just make mediocre ideas sound good, and make it hard to see the flaws in your own work. Stephen King has flat out said more than once that the best thing to happen to his writing was getting clean and sober. His early drug-fueled stuff was the product of a good writer scribbling down warped acid dreams when he wasn't accidentally using manuscripts as rolling papers. (Ever wonder why those early books have so many plot holes, random tangents into nonsense-land, and characters that disappear after a few chapters? Yep. He was gonna tell that part of the story, but pot and booze, so here's a few pages about this other guy.) His post-sobriety stuff, in contrast, is the tight, mindblowing work of a literary legend living up to the potential he showed in his lucid moments.
Writing like any creative artform is a mental workout, requiring an engaged, lucid mind. Yes. This is hard. But there are no shotcuts. Ditch the crutch, put some thought into what you're doing, and I pretty much guarantee you'll see some dramatic improvement in your work.
Well, almost everyday I am on vyvanse(prescribed for my bad ADHD) which causes me to be uncreative, unmotivated, and boring.(Also a lack of personality) It is designed to boost my dopamine but has those negative side effects. If I wasn't on my medicine and I was writing it would just be a bunch of gibberish. Whilst on marijuana, my dopamine is brought to a normal level whilst not having all the negative side effects of vyvanse. So, I often write the most creatively and with the most motivation whilst I'm high.
This doesn't necessarily guarantee quality, though. You can have a very creative idea that no one's ever thought of before, but there's nothing that requires people to like it. Also, you'd still have to write out the draft, and that includes being able to sound like a professional scientist in writing.
Keep in mind that when you write for this site, you're writing for an audience. People will vote on whether they like your work or not, and that vote determines whether your work stays or gets deleted as per usual.
Also, you should never feel like you need to force your writing. If you're not feeling inspired, it's probably a better idea to take a break for a little until you feel like writing again, instead of medicating yourself to force that creativity. The site should be a hobby, not a chore.
So, it's a toy knife that makes people act as if it were real. I like the idea of that. Maybe change a couple of grammar issues here and there, and maybe explain where this SCP came from and how it was contained.
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page revision: 2, last edited: 15 Jan 2023 15:06
