[Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Summary:

another thread will do the trick I'm sure

[Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

OptimisticLucio 18 Apr 2022 20:18

Mirror

Following our discussion of the sandbox joining requirements, we started talking a bit more about the application processes for the site and sandbox, leading to us realizing our current procedure is extremely open to abuse and fiating that we stop recording any ages of applicants and put the application process on freeze.

Now that it's frozen, let's discuss the following:

What should we change our mainsite joining process to?

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

andromedaz 18 Apr 2022 20:23

Just to clarify, mainsite or sandbox?

Nevermind, misread the forum title.

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Last edited on 18 Apr 2022 20:24 by andromedaz Show more

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

andromedaz 18 Apr 2022 20:39

Ugh. This is becoming a real headache if you ask me. This is almost where I would advocate for us to revert the age limit from 18 back down to 15 or 16 (yes, I remember the discussion held in this thread about that).

There are a few issues I personally have with the age aspect of joining the mainsite. I apologize if I go a bit off-topic here. Also note that I am the youngest you can be on this site. The date given next to my avatar is my genuine birthdate.

Firstly, it really is not an effective way of stopping underage users from joining. All you need to do is type or copy the passcode in, write a number that isn't below the minimum age requirement, and you are done. In that case, the whole age part seems unnecessary. The best way to catch underage users is…well, looking at their behavior. So in that case, the whole state-your-age-while-joining is useless. In the sandbox application process, it's no different. The user just needs to give a mod their wikidot name and a number that is or is above the minimum age requirement. We could have let in dozens of underage users who wrote a different number in the chat or joining process.

So I agree that it is just a way of extracting personal information, more so than a way of catching underage users. Also, why I restate the age reversion proposal is because it is extremely hard to identify the difference between a 16 year old and a 18 year old online. Note that I say that from someone who is almost 17 years.

I don't want to say that the current application process for either site is the worst thing ever, but it does seem a bit extra for reasons that are rather ineffective of filtering out underage users. I don't really have a proposal on changing either joining process as of me typing this.

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where we landing? not tilted! ッ

Last edited on 18 Apr 2022 20:41 by andromedaz Show more

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

(account deleted) 18 Apr 2022 21:26

Some of the reasons as to why there's an age limit include harassment, child abuse, and many sensitive things I'm not going to talk about. The site has had some of these cases a few times and I respect the age limit because it has avoided new ones from happening.

I agree with the fact that the application process is too weak, but knowing how many people aren't going to read the rules, some of them will state their real age. It's not effective, sure, but at least it works decently.

I'm also going to digress with "looking at their behavior". That's just vehemence, toxicity and immaturity, which are some of the topics handled by the Disciplinary Team. It's just dealt with and that doesn't change anything.

Reversal would just worsen up things, in my opinion. There's 16-year olds who can be twice as mature than a 28-year old, but let's always remember that they're still underage, and when something really, really bad happens, staff needs to deal with it.

Underage harassment is very fucked up and we can't just let it happen. If the verification process isn't effective, I can assure that it's just the way it is because it can't be better than that. So? Let's just not make it worse.

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

andromedaz 18 Apr 2022 22:19

I'm also going to digress with "looking at their behavior".

Just to clarify, you can tell when a 10 year old is trying to act like a 17 year old. That is what I meant by that.

Underage harassment is very fucked up and we can't just let it happen. If the verification process isn't effective, I can assure that it's just the way it is because it can't be better than that. So? Let's just not make it worse.

That is a good point. I did not think about that, which is my bad since it unfortunately happens more than what many people realize (that is referring to the internet as a whole). Still though, I partially disagree that the methods are an effective way of capturing the underage, but I am not the one looking at cards there so…

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Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Sirslash47 18 Apr 2022 20:49

I agree with your quote on the O5 mirror

"The most agreed upon solution in staffchat, and the one I personally favor, is not requiring the user to state their age nor birth year in the application, but only a confirmation that they are, indeed, old enough to join."

Looking over the discussion you linked, a tickbox as Meserach suggested (or typing out something like "I confirm I am over the age") seems a good alternative that doesn't get outdated fast and can get implemented rather quick/easily for the site and all sistersites/sandboxes.

Edit: also as Meserach said in the same comment this definitely gives legal issues in several EU countries afaik.

Last edited on 18 Apr 2022 20:51 by Sirslash47 Show more

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Kothardarastrix 18 Apr 2022 21:45

I’m for the tick box. Age limits are unenforceable and put a whole lot of people at all kinds of risk. We get legal protections, users get their information protected, everybody wins.

Nonetheless, there should also be big warning somewhere that says DO NOT DISCLOSE YOUR AGE TO ANY USER, EVEN STAFF. THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION

Last edited on 18 Apr 2022 21:48 by Kothardarastrix Show more

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

andromedaz 18 Apr 2022 22:20

DO NOT DISCLOSE YOUR AGE TO ANY USER, EVEN STAFF. THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION

So people cannot put their DOB in their wikidot profile?

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Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Kothardarastrix 18 Apr 2022 23:42

I mean, I guess you could if you really wanted to, it probably wouldn’t be against the rules or anything. I guess it could be, or at least against the rules to ask for it, though. Mostly just a piece of very strongly worded advice.

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Lt Flops 19 Apr 2022 00:22

Nonetheless, there should also be big warning somewhere that says DO NOT DISCLOSE YOUR AGE TO ANY USER, EVEN STAFF. THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION

I think this is a measure that is far too extreme in the opposite direction.

In pre-2010s Internet this would have been one of the unspoken rules, but no longer.

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Last edited on 19 Apr 2022 00:22 by Lt Flops Show more

Re: [Discussion] Application Process for the Site and Sandbox

Kothardarastrix 19 Apr 2022 00:41

I mean, they could ignore it if they wanted to. I just think it’d be a good idea to remind the youngsters that they aren’t necessarily 100% safe here.