SCP-6689 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-6689.

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DodoDevil 21 Mar 2022 18:44

A maze displays choices between alternative paths, and some of the paths are dead ends. In a maze one can make mistakes. If one unwinds a maze, one gets a particular kind of tree in which certain choices are privileged in respect to others. Some alternatives end at a point where one is obliged to return backwards, whereas others generate new branches, and only one among them leads to the way out. In this kind of labyrinth, one does need an Ariadne thread; otherwise, one might spend one's life in turning around by repeating the same moves.
[…]
A maze does not need a Minotaur: it is its own Minotaur: in other words, the Minotaur is the visitor's trial-and-error process

- Umberto Eco, Semiotics and the Philosophy of Language, 1984, pp. 81.

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I owe a lot of people thanks for taking a look at this, in no particular order: LAN 2D, Esoterica does not match any existing user name, basirskipreader, Dysadron, GremlinGroup, Placeholder McD, Fishish, Limeyy, Maxyfran73, and LORDXVNV.

Hope you enjoy, I'd love to hear how people approached this one!

(The sections attributed to the Emerald Tablet are from that, the concept attributed to Eco is from him, as cited above.)

Last edited on 21 Mar 2022 22:56 by DodoDevil Show more

Placeholder McD 21 Mar 2022 19:35

taking a momentary hiatus from my hiatus to say this is one of the best articles I've read in a very long time. this is such a thoughtful and innovative format screw and I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. I'm so blown away by the storytelling, and the visuals are superb as always. Dododon't miss.

(account deleted) 25 Mar 2022 12:05

Echoing.

I loved how this was made. It's a very creative form of making a CYOA article. I can agree that the project part is quite slow (As said by Maxyfran) but the mix of the CYOA genre and the good ol' Foundation Noology is so goddamn cool.

This piece was sweet. +1, delightfully.

Last edited on 12 May 2022 19:21 by (account deleted) Show more

Dr Moned 21 Mar 2022 19:57

My brain is partially melted, but the part that is left absolutely loved reading this.

a-maze-ing work. ;)

Maxyfran73 21 Mar 2022 20:15

I love this so, so much. I remember seeing the draft and loving every part of it. The way you explain concepts and mix it with prose is so captivating; at no point did I feel bored or thought this piece was too much. My one 'but' is that the Project part feels a bit… Rushed? Like it gets in out of nowhere and leaves just as soon. Not to say that it wasn't a great read, but rather that there is a small disconnect between the rest of the piece and the end goal. Maybe that's just the logic of the labyrinth, tho, where the treasure and the maze containing it differ in structure.

That being said, this is the most 'I think this is a 9.5/10' complaint ever: I loved the alchemical side of things as much as every other part of this piece. It's just… It's just amazing in every sense, yeah.

Easy +1~

MontagueETC 21 Mar 2022 20:19

I struggle to express how much I like this skip— I feel lucky to have been involved in the crit process.

+1

+1

A Fungus 22 Mar 2022 11:09

Finally, a real world application for post-structuralism

Gabriel Kero 22 Mar 2022 17:13

Dodo SCP, always +1.

Modulum 22 Mar 2022 17:22

chessland but good +1

-1

Ralliston 22 Mar 2022 18:37

I feel awful downvoting this. It's obvious you put immense thought and work into this, and I applaud you for what you did here — the visuals are amazing and the idea of the reader navigating a literal labyrinth is great. But.

This was a slog to get through. It really pains me to say it, but Fishhook did this much better — unfortunately, here, I just… I don't know what I'm supposed to read. Half of the small vignettes feel barely connected to the actual article and sometimes are outright so confusing I have no idea what they mean. I got lost in the maze of this after a couple of moments, and I don't consider that a good thing, because it took me a solid 30 minutes to realize what I'm even reading, which is very frustrating, to say the least. The article is also unfortunately entirely unreadable from a mobile perspective due to the number of pages you have to load in rapid succession.

And then I got to the end. And… I was simply disappointed, because I was met with even more confusing technobabble and no satisfying explanation. Which was quite annoying after more than half an hour of trying to figure out what I'm even supposed to do.

I'm sorry, friend. I know this works for a lot of people, judging from the reception — and I really commend you for what you did here — but this article isn't for me. It just totally misses for me, which I feel awful about once again. I'm really sorry, but it's a downvote from me.

Re: -1

DodoDevil 22 Mar 2022 19:59

You certainly should not feel bad for downvoting, and your takeaway is not at all invalid!

Your comment prompted a few thoughts, which wound up being longish, so I collapsed them.

Thoughts

On one level, providing a confusing, fragmented, somewhat irritating reading experience was one of the intentions of the work. The hope was that there'd be a moment in reading where why you were made to experience that would all come together, and then offer some sort of catharsis that would help relate the reader to the events experienced by SCP-6689. I did not expect this to work for everyone at all, and I am okay with that.

Figuring out how much insight to directly offer the reader was something I went back and forth on, largely because the order in which one reads the offsets is (happily) largely out of my control. I could either have a clearer A-B-C presentation setup, which would compromise the role of the structure, or I could have a stronger underlying linear narrative, that's then presented potentially out of sequence. I went for a series of interconnected storylines occurring co-currently, which obviously presented its own hosts of pitfalls for a reader.

At least in my intentions, the goal was somewhat different from Fishhook. Whereas that works (extremely well) by hooking you into the text and pulling you along deeper, this was always meant to be a maze, where you aren't really supposed to know where you are or where you're going. It was meant to be a step further than SCP-6699 — which uses the Left/Right text boxes as "branches" — by giving the reader more agency in how they navigate it. I've actually undercut that somewhat by linking to the initial file as often as I did, but I do think that helps with the reader's experience and to indicate the "end" more clearly.

On that note, I am happy to provide a bit more insight into the events during the final offset, but I don't imagine that will change your response to it much as you're obviously voting based on the in-article content. I will say I'm not done with the Dept. of Transmutation yet.

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to make it easier for mobile readers. But that was something that hadn't really crossed my mind, so I appreciate you pointing it out! I'm very open to suggestions.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the visuals though!

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That was a long way of saying, I get where you're coming from and really appreciate you taking the time to read this! I'm sorry it didn't work for you, thanks for sharing with me why that was the case!

Last edited on 22 Mar 2022 20:03 by DodoDevil Show more

Crow-Cat 24 Mar 2022 19:38

I liked this, it really feels like you're moving through the noosphere, bouncing from one thought/idea/memory to another. A fun article.

My one complaint is that SCP-🜂🜂🜂🜂 and SCP-🜁🜁🜁🜁 are never elaborated upon, since they seem relevant to the other two. I understand if not explaining them was a personal choice and/or doing so would've distracted from the article, and it doesn't effect my vote in any case.

DodoDevil 25 Mar 2022 02:32

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Few spoilers regarding SCP-🜂🜂🜂🜂 and SCP-🜁🜁🜁🜁 below!

Thoughts

🜂 and 🜁 are the entities from SCP-6659, specifically:

• SCP-🜂🜂🜂🜂 (Fire) is the outcome of PROJECT PROMETHEUM, an entity meant to "combat extra-noospheric threats via channeled worship of the ideal of Humanity."
• SCP-🜁🜁🜁🜁 (Air) is that extra-noospheric threat.

The conflict between these two is ongoing in the background of SCP-6689, and we get a peek at it here, but the article's meant to focus on 🜄/🜃 (whose conflict mirrors 🜂/🜁). I didn't want to add too much else going on, given that there is plenty for the reader to get lost on as-is, but I do have (hopeful!) plans to explore 🜂, 🜁, 🜄, and 🜃 more going forward.

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