SCP-2106 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-2106.

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But Conwell, this skip doesn’t end in XX60?!?

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 06:57

So this one was a long time in the making. The original idea was something I began working on back in 2014 after I discovered it boiled down into birds what kill you. Thanks to a timely comment by sirpudding, I received just the right amount of motivation to try again. Thanks again sirpudding. You are very neat and should feel as such.

Additional thanks to: Crayne, thekillerax, Randomini, Decibelle, ProcyonLotor, Roget, Silber, Cimmerian, Goomy , AthenaGrey, Amuness Creep, and Dr. Leonard for all reviewing the many, many versions of this when it was a draft.

Extra special thanks to TwistedGears who saw far too many different drafts of this, including the original from back in 2014.

Hope you all enjoy.

JC

ProcyonLotor 20 Oct 2015 07:05

Saw this in draft form and quite liked it, can't say that's changed.
Admittedly, that's because I saw it in draft form two days ago, but still.
+1

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 07:22

You see, Kitty, it MUST have been either me or the Red King. He was part of my dream of course - but then I was part of his dream too!
-Alice, Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 11:33 by sirpudding Show more

Rayzoris 20 Oct 2015 07:31

I like this. It's kind of poetic, Jessica liking how simple it is to be a raven and the ravens liking how complex it is to be a human. The note adds a creepy little twist for me.

+ Spoiler

[Connect the bold letters.]

Upvoted.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 07:31 by Rayzoris Show more

Zmax15 20 Oct 2015 09:00

Oh. My god. Oh god. Yes.

+1. For the 2106 to finally make it, I'm glad it was this one.

psul 20 Oct 2015 07:48

This is all sorts of excellent - Jessica is a lesson in how to provide some character without backstory, and the anomaly opens up lots of questions and further thought, which is great.

I would suggest changing the designations of the addenda / interviews, as I find it mildly distracting that they are -1 / -2 in the same way as parts of the anomaly.

My one tiny issue is that I struggle to believe that the second interview was written by -2. Those turns of phrase sound much more like speech than writing, and it's a lot of writing to do at once, without being interrupted by more questions from the interviewer. And it makes more sense for the cawing to prevent further speech than further writing. Is there a reason that interview couldn't be spoken?

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 08:11

Good call on the addenda designations. That has been fixed.

As to your later query, the short answer is that 2106 cannot talk, and therefore communicates only in writing.

The long way of explaining it would be that there is no real way for 2106-2 to vocalize itself. I suppose you could argue that the ravens could caw at different intervals and intensities to make a voice, but that was a little out there, even for my standards.

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 09:04

It's not really a stretch at all, actually.

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 09:08

…

Well then. I need to think about a few things.

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 11:25

Of course Mischief is a white-necked raven, Corvus albicollis, but Corvus corax can also speak, and you can find some examples with a bit of searching: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hQxNOFPqidg

Note, though that the SCP-2106 unkindness is rather large to be stable. Corvus corax group in pairs primarily and will generally only gather in larger unkindnesses temporarily to exploit a large food source or drive off a predator.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 12:47 by sirpudding Show more

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 17:41

And the man with the fancy youtube videos wins the day. Article has been edited to incorporate a means for 2106-2 to mimic speech.

As for the size of the unkindness (I was originally under the impression that the name for a grouping of Ravens was called a conspiracy, but this has been changed as well as Unkindness is more inline with the feel of the article than Conspiracy) I imagine that the common draw of being able to access 2106-2 would be what maintains the stability.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 17:43 by Jacob Conwell Show more

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 17:44

Both usages seem to be common, and "Conspiracy" is better for your theme, I would keep it.

SixthClone 20 Oct 2015 12:12

I love everything about this one!

Thekillerax 20 Oct 2015 12:20

Much improved from the version you showed me in chat. Easy upvote.

---

And if the whole world is crashing down… fall through space out of mind with me.

MrWrong 20 Oct 2015 12:49

The anomalous properties of SCP-2106-1 become apparent between the hours of 2200 and 0800.¹

Nitpick: I feel that the timezone should be addressed instead, rather than simply translating from 24 hour clock to a 12 hour system.

Other than that, I have little issues with this SCP.

Footnotes

1. 10:00 PM – 8:00 AM

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 12:54

It probably ought to be local time, but it also probably should be based on corvid circadian timing (and therefore sunlight).

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 17:38

Great suggestion. Time zone has been specified and the UTC off set has been included in the foot note.

Nitpicks that make the article more akin to a scientific report are always appreciated.

Breezeblock 20 Oct 2015 14:15

I found the whole bold letters thing to be such a cheesy way to inject something into an otherwise great article, same with the "can ravens even dream" part.

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 14:41

Ravens dream. This isn't remotely disputable. All birds and almost all mammals dream.

Agent MacLeod 20 Oct 2015 14:59

Ok, but do androids dream of electric sheep?

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 15:15

+ spoiler for a 47 year old book

Maybe. Deckard owns a synthetic sheep and dreams about it, but it isn't really ever clear if Deckard is an android. The V.K. test he failed was administered by androids masquerading as police officers, and may have been fraudulent. Or not. That's kind of the point.

There's a reasonable interpretation of the book that humanity is nearly extinct and everyone in the novel is synthetic, except for Isidore. This is symbolized by the toad Deckard finds at the end of the book and thinks is a real animal, thought to be extinct, but is discovered to be synthetic.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 15:16 by sirpudding Show more

augmentedspartan 20 Oct 2015 15:01

Then shouldn't the researcher know that?

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 15:20

1. Why are you assuming he's a wildlife biologist and not a psychologist or something?
2. Why are you assuming that his question isn't an interrogation technique? Demonstrating shared ignorance builds rapport.
3. Also the question maybe wholly ontological. I don't even know if you dream. Only that almost all endothermic vertebrates have REM sleep.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 15:23 by sirpudding Show more

Jacob Conwell 20 Oct 2015 17:48

Dr. Aeslinger is an established character in a few tales, whose main function for the Foundation is as a clinical psychologist.

While it is fully possible that having a Psy.D. would lend one with the knowledge as to whether ravens dream, its is also very likely that it would not.

Petrograd 21 Oct 2015 05:06

Indeed! Except the poor, poor spiny anteater.

I actually agree with Breezeblock, the bolded/capitalized/first-in-each-line letters trick is pretty meh. The action was nice and ambiguous up to that point, but the note at least partially solidified what was until that point a delicate dance.

I love the scale of the anomaly and I think it's fantastically written, but the ending might just be enough to move me from a strong upvote to a no-vote.

Edit: For more specificity:
What I liked in the article was the implication that a collection of ravens, through their natural curiosity (or perhaps grief, which they definitely also display in bizarre ways), had simply decided that it would be interesting to be a human for a while. This, balanced against the back-and-forth of dreaming and the life of the original Jessica, made for a nice push-and-pull.

Having them spell out their collective will, in plain English (even if it is "hidden", bolded text isn't subliminal) really nails them down to an at least human-like mind, and sucks a lot of the alien-ness inherent to the animal mind out of it.

I know the article is incredibly successful and that others enjoyed the gambit, but it just sapped it for me.

Last edited on 21 Oct 2015 05:18 by Petrograd Show more

sirpudding 21 Oct 2015 16:39

FWIW, I am not particularly fond of the bold letter hidden message thing either.

Last edited on 21 Oct 2015 16:46 by sirpudding Show more

coachskau 20 Oct 2015 16:56

I don't fully understand the backlash against Ferro for his examination. Was he unduly rough or something? Is the message in bold directed at the Foundation as a whole, or to Ferro himself?

That aside, this is wonderful. +1

sirpudding 20 Oct 2015 18:11

According to my cat, who at the venerable age he has attained considers himself an expert on nearly everything, all veterinary exams are unduly rough and monstrously unfair. I doubt ravens are anymore predisposed.

Zyn 20 Oct 2015 18:18

all veterinary exams are unduly rough and monstrously unfair.

Simon's Cat agrees.

_{also eeeeeeeee you also have a cat oh man i want a cat so bad but i have too many plants at least one of them is poisonous to kitties i will need an outdoor cat but i have no tiiimmmeeee for outdoor cat ;A;}

Myriad 20 Oct 2015 19:30

You know, I would have thought that plants were a silly reason not to keep a cat. That is, until I left my house for a day and came back to the great fern massacre of '13.

Last edited on 20 Oct 2015 19:30 by Myriad Show more

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