Stop and read the roses

Summary:

1,9k draft, not for cupidcon, not searching greenlights

Stop and read the roses

Sirslash47 19 Feb 2021 15:05

I had a draft that collected some dust for a while but I took it up again. I'd like some crit on it.

I think the theme fits best into the romantic category. As the summary states; this is not for cupidcon.

Some points I am worried about;

• Clinical tone: my worst quality. I definitely made mistakes on this.
• Everything after the first addendum.
  • The basics and the first addendum were added way earlier and are in my opinion stronger than the rest. The other addenda came more than a month later when I picked it up again. I honestly think it is possible to cut between any two addenda and end it there after some rewording. I don't know if this would be the best option.
• Just general thoughts.

Any other crit is also welcome and please keep it civilized. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Removed the link

Last edited on 26 Feb 2021 12:05 by Sirslash47 Show more

Re: Stop and read the roses

Quadraginta 20 Feb 2021 09:31

IRC Request.

Alright, so, this crit is likely to be extremely rambly. I apologize ahead of time :'D

Let's get started shall we?

+Hello there!

Gonna mark recommended changes to be removed with strikeout and things to be added as bolded.

If I deem a more significant change necessary, I'll write it down.

Following the events of Addendum-2, the following containments previous containment procedures are now outdated.

Though, now that I think about it, you'd probably be better off writing the entirety of the previous containment procedures and just striking them out.

The bullet pointed list should be re-written entirely, I say.

Recommended, 'The immediate area around SCP-XXXX is to be monitored by one Foundation agent and cleaned by a researcher with Level 4 Clearance. Civilians who have witnessed SCP-XXXX's anomalous effects are to be administered Class B amnestics.'
Though I do have to wonder what you mean when SCP-XXXX's environment needs to be monitored by an agent and its surroundings need to be cleaned by a Level 4 Researcher. Did you mean that the agent was necessary to prevent people from entering its area and the Researcher is necessary to be able to clean it inside?

After the reclassification of SCP-XXXX, the graveyard alongside the surrounding area of SCP-XXXX was bought out by the Foundation.

Consider, 'After SCP-XXXX's reclassification to Neutralized, the graveyard in which it is located was purchased by the Foundation.

SCP-XXXX were **is the designation given to the black roses1 that grew on the grave of SCP-XXXX-1.

---

I'll be focusing more on general thoughts now.

On 09/06/2018 Mr. Doyle returned without further complications.

Tbh after an anomalous event like that, I'm not sure Foundation personnel would just let ordinary citizens back into the enclosement like that. I'd definitely change this detail.

and/or

I'm very sure SCP documents would not use forward-slash words like this.

I'd recognize your footsteps anywhere, doofus.

Honestly made me chuckle. This is wholesome.

Aw, you have classified me… how sweet.

Fine, I was the one who wrecked your old car in that experiment. You know, from before you were even a level 4 staff member. It was an accident, I swear!

Your dialogue has shown significant improvement here. Still some odd spots, but the wholesomeness and longing is so strong between these two…and to think, you're crafting a well-written Tale that involves romance between an anomaly and an O5. Well done.

05-2: I see… Then yes, I won't deny it.

Consider, 'Yeah. I am.'

05-2: I've- Sniff. I've preserved your flowers and send sent them to your colleagues.

conservatory.

I had to google what this meant. American's informally refer to these as 'greenhouses.' Maybe change it to that? I don't think it's a huge deal, though.

05-2: I- I wanted to give you something for a while. I'm wearing the other one.

He wore both rings to remember his lost wife. Jesus, this is good shit.

Simon, your voice sounds broken.

Hmmm nobody says someone's voice sounds broken. They'd say something like, 'Your voice is shakey.' Maybe. I'm actually not 100% sure about this. Maybe just skip the shakey voice bit and go straight to Cath telling O5-2 that it's alright to cry.

Also, I just noticed you're typing 05 with the number zero. O5 is actually meant to be typed with the letter O.

05-2: How do you know I'm crying? You can't even see me.

How would O5-2 know this? Unless something else proved beforehand that he knows Cath can't see in flower form.

I might not see you crying, but I can feel your tears fall on my stone.

Hmmmm maybe, 'I can feel your tears.'

Let the readers assume they're falling on the tomb.

05-2: Sobbing.

I recommend just changing this to, O5-2 sobs or something without the 05-2: marker.

It's ok, I'll make sure they'll bloom into a beautiful rose.

Consider, 'It's okay. I'm sure this grave will be covered in beautiful roses' or something. Following this from the previous statements, it almost sounds like she's suggesting she'll turn his tears into roses.

That said.

Damn.

Feels, yo.

The feels.

…on another note, I don't think SCP-XXXX-1 is necessary; Cath died and her soul got planted (stealth pun) into some anomalous black roses. It should just be SCP-XXXX imo.

The only problem would be explaining this to O5-2. We can't even give him back the ring.

I have the sad now.

+Yo yo yo, final thoughts time

I'm gonna put this here since this leads right into my final thoughts.

Question for critters Since there has been a significant time inbetween the biggest work on this draft (more than a month) I want to know if I should cut it after Addendum-1 or Addendum-2 as stated in the forum post. Thank you for reading the draft.

Hmmm I personally love the symbolism you used as well as the transformation from a black rose to a white rose.

Black rose: Death and endings, but also sign of new beginnings

White rose: Purity, love and innocence.

Their old relationship between two humans ended and O5-2 is strong enough as well as willing enough to continue his marriaged with his wife who is now an anomalous rose.

Part of me…is a little iffy with how openly welcoming and wholesome everybody is about the whole situation, but I admittedly have been so negative as of late that I'm welcoming this positivity.

Though, granted, others will definitely bring up how overwhelmingly positive the whole situation is; undoubtedly, in universe, some of the O5s would likely still be against one of their colleagues essentially maintaining a romantic relationship with an SCP.

I suggest seeking other crit for other viewpoints on that tbh.

…Also I'm currently like half asleep at my keyboard, so if you got any more questions or if I didn't make sense for some of this, let me know :'D

I hope I helped, tho'.

o7

Re: Stop and read the roses

Dr Hajovsky 23 Feb 2021 04:35

Hi there Sirslash47, let's take at look your draft.

+ show block

Overall:
So, wow, I'll have to agree with Quadraginta, this hit hard. The dialogue is extremely well done and really conveys the romantic chemistry between the two as well as the pain that O5-2 is going through. The symbolism, story, and ending really just get you in the feels.

The characterization of the O5 Council is good as well, but it feels a little more casual and lax than one might have expected. I actually prefer this, since it conveys that the O5s are still people, but O5-2 sending an email with that kind of wording feels a little out of place for someone so high ranking.

I also appreciate how it's pretty subtly implied as to what happened with O5-8 and the gravesite. I could be wrong, but I interpreted it as them basically defiling the grave to collect samples and examine. This just adds to the already intense emotions and really compliments addendum 1 and gives an arc to the story. While the article could still work without addendum 2, I think it should be left in because of these reasons.

There's a few instances of missing commas or lack or clinical tone, so I'll do my best to catch as many as I can below.

Specific:

I'll be using strikethrough for what to cut out and green for what to add in.

I'd start out by putting the whole thing behind level 5 or O5 clearance using a collapsible. The actual names of O5 members are (debatably) only known to other O5 members, and in regular articles the O5 designation is usually filled in by a blackbox.

"The Graveyard Keeper" , "The Gravedigger"

While they sound cool, I don't see why the agents assigned to the graveyard need special designations. Special designations are something that I feel are usually reserved for MTFs, and designating individual agents assigned to a task could be confusing for a reader.

When someone came close or talked to the grave, a rose grew and dew drops fell. These spread out a message as if they were made from ink. After reading the message, it vanished, and the rose quickly decayed and got reabsorbed into the soil. It was unknown how much SCP-XXXX-1 could perceive its surroundings but it could hear approximately 50 meters far and felt direct interaction with its grave.

(This would be written in present tense, as it's aiming to be clinical and would be written around the time of initial discovery)
When someone came close approaches or talked to attempts to communicate with the grave, a rose grew and dew drops fell will grow and produce dew drops. These will spread out and form a message as if they were made from in a similar manner to ink. After reading an individual reads the message, it vanished will quickly fade, and the rose quickly will rapidly decayed and got be reabsorbed into the soil. It was is unknown how much SCP-XXXX-1 could can perceive its surroundings , but it could can hear in an approximately 50 meters far radius and felt feel direct interaction with its grave.

SCP-XXXX-1 refered to Catherine Hall

SCP-XXXX-1, also refered to as Catherine Hall ,

Simon, your voice sounds broken.

A bit of a strange line, as it's not something people usually say to each other. (As far as I know)

Whilst it is not considered abnormal to visit a grave frequently,

I feel this bit can be cut, as it's implied.

SCP-XXXX-1 "Catherine Hall" who was a level 4 staff member

SCP-XXXX-1 , "Catherine Hall" , who was a level 4 staff member

Whilst this is not a necessity for all files, and can even provide extra security measures in case of memetic hazards, the file of SCP-XXXX currently is not proven significant enough for these measurements.

I also feel that this can be cut. It feels like the O5 Council is just reiterating something that should be common knowledge among Foundation staff.

which was granted since he specifies in termination

which was granted since he specifies specializes in termination

O5-2 does not completely handle in the best interest of the Foundation

O5-2 does has not completely handle acted in the best interest of the Foundation ,

Whether it is alive, dead or both is not fully comprehended.

Breaks the clinical tone. I'd cut it, but I do feel it can be phrased better if you'd like to keep it.

Advice:
I believe the narrative is in a great spot as is. Just clearing up the breaks in clinical tone, grammar, and putting that last portion in the format you want is all that needs to be done. Good work.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or would like me to do a follow up, as I might not see it otherwise. Good luck with your draft!

Re: Stop and read the roses

Sirslash47 23 Feb 2021 08:23

Clinical tone always has been my worst enemy on the wiki. You have some very good alternatives. And I will check the e-mails.

Thank you for the crit.

P.S. I'm also glad you got the implication of what happened at the grave.

Edit: I'll see first if this fits in paste tense as I want people to believe it is neutralized completely at first.

Last edited on 24 Feb 2021 22:21 by Sirslash47 Show more

Re: Stop and read the roses

Limeyy 23 Feb 2021 07:54

Sorry for the wait, just got around to taking a look now:

Technical stuff

I'm not the best with clinical tone and wording, so take all of this section with a pound of salt.

After this, O5-2 came back to SCP-XXXX-1 on a daily basis.

This is subjected wrong I think. O5-2 came back to the grave of SCP-XXXX-1 or came back to SCP-XXXX seems more in clinical tone to me.

It is therefore believed that O5-2 does not completely handle in the best interest of the Foundation but rather out of personal reasons/interest.

This sentence is missing a subject and reads weird to me. Consider rewording like havjosky suggests or "is not handling the situation in the best interests…".

Please vote in the tabel below.

tabel -> table

To: O5-1, O5-3, O5-4 and 7 others

This should be 8 others (assuming it is being sent to the other 11 members of the council, excluding -02)

I must admid that I haven't

admid -> admit

O5-2 who could not accept the fact that SCP-XXXX-1 agreed to cooperate asked control of the graveyard.

I'm not quite sure what's going on here clause wise. I think some commas would serve this well. " O5-2, who could not accept the fact that SCP-XXXX-1 agreed to cooperate, asked [for] control of the graveyard." maybe?

SCP-XXXX-1 is the wife and advisor of O5-2.

Is -> was?

Whether it is alive, dead or both is not fully comprehended.

Flowers are alive, with no doubt. Do you mean if it is sapient or not is not fully comprehended?

Narrative stuff

This was definitely a cute and sombre story that I am certainly a fan of. The interview is written well and really sell the chemistry between the two. It's definitely the high point in the article for me, and I can't really think of much to improve it. Addendum 2 is there mostly to progress the story to the second XXXX entry, which is okay but I think it suffers from some pacing issues.

In particular, the opening investigation vote really stretches on when most the information is either implied heavily in Foundation practices (hiding things from the O5 is only done when it's very important) or outright stated earlier in the article (Most the rest of the message). Reading it all for a second time really slows down what's mostly a transition to the second emotional hit of the story, and I think it could serve well narratively to have this section cut down of the repeated information to the bare minimum or not there at all. While in-universe, this information would need to be gotten across to the council as they haven't read the main XXXX article, it makes for a less positive reading experience, and as such I think needs some cutting. Brevity really does work in your favour here, and repeating yourself pulls away from that.

Overall I do really like the narrative here, and I think the new XXXX article at the end is a really sweet note to end it off on, but I think it takes too long to get there in the current form.

If you have any other questions, hit me up on IRC, I'm usually about. Good luck with your writing :)

Last edited on 23 Feb 2021 07:55 by Limeyy Show more

Re: Stop and read the roses

Mooagain 25 Feb 2021 20:22

From IRC

+ show block

Following the events of Addendum-2, the following containments are now outdated.

Replace containments with containment procedures or just procedures.

The immediate area around SCP-XXXX is to be under watch by 1 foundation agent and must be cleaned daily by a researcher with level 4 clearance. Civilians who witnessed the effects of SCP-XXXX need to be administered Class B amnestics.

Replace around with surrounding, 1 with one, and I think foundation needs a capital F. Also, I don't get why they need a level 4 person to clean it?

After SCP-XXXX's reclassification to Neutralized, the graveyard in which it is located was purchased by the Foundation.

Replace is with was, since it isn't in the graveyard anymore.

When someone approached or attempted to communicate with the grave, a rose grew and produced dew drops.

Someone is too informal, how about 'a subject.'

After an individual read the message, it quickly faded, and the rose rapidly decayed and got reabsorbed into the soil.

How about "After an individual read the message, it would quickly fade, and the rose would rapidly decay and be reabsorbed into the soil."

It was unknown how much SCP-XXXX-1 could perceive its surroundings but it could hear in an approximately 50 meters radius and felt direct interaction with its grave.

How about "It was unknown how much of its surroundings SCP-XXXX-1 could perceive, but it could hear in an approximately 50 meter radius and feel direct interaction with its grave."

Whilst involvement for personal reasons are normally contested by the O5-Council, this did not happen due to O5-2 being specialized in termination practices and the initial burial covered all traces of the Foundation.

How about "Whilst involvement for personal reasons is normally contested by the O5-Council, this did not occur due to O5-2's specialization in termination practices and covering traces of the Foundation."

It is presumed that O5-2 did not come back earlier since he either was occupied by other duties and did not want SCP-XXXX to gain extra attention.

I don't think this line is needed, the reader can figure that part out on their own.

Aw, you classified me… how sweet.

This got a laugh out of me.

Several inkdrops spread out and form an image of Catherine.

Should say SCP-XXXX-1.

I might not see you crying, but I can feel your tears fall on my stone.

The last four words are a little weird, maybe just stop at tears?

Internal Investigation on SCP-XXXX

I agree with Limey here, this log drags on with information already known to the reader.

Description: SCP-XXXX is a houseplant of O5-2

Replace of with belonging to.

Final thoughts: This is a really good story, and I'm a sucker for humanizing the O5s. I really like the way you portrayed them. I doubt that I found all the SPaG errors in this, so definitely get some more people for that. I don't really have much else to say, this is a solid story, +1.

Re: Stop and read the roses

Mooagain 25 Feb 2021 20:24

From IRC

+ show block

Following the events of Addendum-2, the following containments are now outdated.

Replace containments with containment procedures or just procedures.

The immediate area around SCP-XXXX is to be under watch by 1 foundation agent and must be cleaned daily by a researcher with level 4 clearance. Civilians who witnessed the effects of SCP-XXXX need to be administered Class B amnestics.

Replace around with surrounding, 1 with one, and I think foundation needs a capital F. Also, I don't get why they need a level 4 person to clean it?

After SCP-XXXX's reclassification to Neutralized, the graveyard in which it is located was purchased by the Foundation.

Replace is with was, since it isn't in the graveyard anymore.

When someone approached or attempted to communicate with the grave, a rose grew and produced dew drops.

Someone is too informal, how about 'a subject.'

After an individual read the message, it quickly faded, and the rose rapidly decayed and got reabsorbed into the soil.

How about "After an individual read the message, it would quickly fade, and the rose would rapidly decay and be reabsorbed into the soil."

It was unknown how much SCP-XXXX-1 could perceive its surroundings but it could hear in an approximately 50 meters radius and felt direct interaction with its grave.

How about "It was unknown how much of its surroundings SCP-XXXX-1 could perceive, but it could hear in an approximately 50 meter radius and feel direct interaction with its grave."

Whilst involvement for personal reasons are normally contested by the O5-Council, this did not happen due to O5-2 being specialized in termination practices and the initial burial covered all traces of the Foundation.

How about "Whilst involvement for personal reasons is normally contested by the O5-Council, this did not occur due to O5-2's specialization in termination practices and covering traces of the Foundation."

It is presumed that O5-2 did not come back earlier since he either was occupied by other duties and did not want SCP-XXXX to gain extra attention.

I don't think this line is needed, the reader can figure that part out on their own.

Aw, you classified me… how sweet.

This got a laugh out of me.

Several inkdrops spread out and form an image of Catherine.

Should say SCP-XXXX-1.

I might not see you crying, but I can feel your tears fall on my stone.

The last four words are a little weird, maybe just stop at tears?

Internal Investigation on SCP-XXXX

I agree with Limey here, this log drags on with information already known to the reader.

Description: SCP-XXXX is a houseplant of O5-2

Replace of with belonging to.

Final thoughts: This is a really good story, and I'm a sucker for humanizing the O5s. I really like the way you portrayed them. I doubt that I found all the SPaG errors in this, so definitely get some more people for that. I don't really have much else to say, this is a solid story, +1.

Re: Stop and read the roses

CrystalMonarch 25 Feb 2021 20:30

SCPs

Following the events of Addendum-2, the following containments are now outdated.

Following the events of Addendum-2, the following containment procedures are now outdated.

The immediate area around SCP-XXXX is to be under watch by 1 foundation agent and must be cleaned daily by a researcher with level 4 clearance.

The immediate area around SCP-XXXX is to be kept under watch by one Foundation agent and must be cleaned daily by a researcher with level 4 clearance.

Civilians who witnessed the effects of SCP-XXXX need to be administered Class B amnestics.

Civilians who witness the effects of SCP-XXXX need to be administered Class B amnestics.

It has been repurposed as an area where personnel of level 3 and higher without a significant other are buried.

This is interesting, makes me want to keep reading.

I think the Containment Procedures as a whole are good, but it’s a bit confusing how its laid out. I’d suggest separating the outdated parts more, maybe put them in a collapsible or something.

Description

When someone approached or attempted to communicate with the grave

Communicate with the grave sounds weird to me. Maybe ‘communicate with XXXX-1’ or just leave it as when people approached.

Its research was specified in floriculture and cross-breeding plants.

This is just my opinion and goes against a lot of articles on the site. But for me it feels weird to use it/its pronouns to refer to someone who was a Foundation employee, especially when referring to the time before she became anomalous like this.

Whilst involvement for personal reasons are normally contested by the O5-Council, this did not happen due to O5-2 being specialized in termination practices and the initial burial covered all traces of the Foundation.

I can’t really parse this sentence, I don’t understand what this means.

On 06/06/2018, Hendrick Doyle, a man of 76 years of age who regularly comes to visit his wife's grave reported strange writing on a neighboring grave

Neighbouring grave feels weird to me, why not just say SCP-XXXX-1’s grave? Also I’m confused about who he reported this to, did he call the police because he saw weird writing on a grave?

Could you clean my gravestone, please?

If I’m reading this right, she was literally only buried the day before so I’m not sure how her gravestone had time to get dirty. Also feels weird that this is her first priority after coming back to life as a magical rose.

Mr. Doyle was administered a class A amnestic by an emergency appointed Graveyard Keeper.

I have no idea what a Graveyard Keeper is, or why they’d be in charge of that.

Structurally, the Description works fine for me. I feel like if you can clean up the wording in the places I’ve pointed out, this Description does a good job of setting up your story and catching the reader’s interest.

Addendum 1

It is presumed that O5-2 did not come back earlier since he either was occupied by other duties and did not want SCP-XXXX to gain extra attention.

Why do they have to presume, can’t the Foundation just ask him?

I assume they didn't assign me as those two their senior?

I don’t understand what this sentence means.

Addendum 1 is great, does a good job at setting up these characters. Some of the way the dialogue was laid out strains credibility a bit, all the sighs and sniffs doesn’t feel much like a professional document. But it’ll be hard to remove that while keeping the same level of emotion, so your call.

Addendum 2

Due to O5-2 taking care of the file of SCP-XXXX, and his daily visits, it did not go unnoticed that after a 14 day period most information wasn't available for other staff members.

‘taking care’ feels unprofessional. I’d say ‘personally handling’

Internal Investigation on SCP-XXXX

I think this whole section can be cut. I’d combine this section with the email about voting results immediately following it. Just summarize that the rest of the council was suspicious, and voted to send a team to investigate behind O5-2’s back, led by O5-8.

In attachment you'll find the file of SCP-XXXX. SCP-XXXX-1 even cooperated and suggested a quick forensic analysis itself.

I’m a bit confused here, did they accidentally ‘kill’ SCP-XXXX when investigating?

The complete funds were granted to O5-2 by a veto of O5-8 as a reconciliation gift.

I’m confused what this means, I think veto might not be the right word there.

On 05/07/2018 SCP-XXXX was classified as neutralized and the file of SCP-XXXX was re-assigned to O5-2.

I think Neutralized should be capitalised.

The last section with the new file is really nice and sweet and I think it’s a good ending for the piece as a whole. In terms of layout, you could do with making it clearer that this is a new update, and is written after the rest of the article.

Overall

Overall, I liked this, the emotions of the piece work and I like the little glimpse we get into these two’s relationship. There were a few points where I was confused, that I’d hope you can clarify when redrafting and some parts where clinical tone isn’t 100%.

I also feel like this is a very human and small scale depiction of the O5, which I’m a little torn about. On the one hand, I like the idea that they’re human too and seeing O5-2 grieving his wife like this, and making emotional decisions about the anomaly is interesting. But the way the rest of the O5 act strains my credulity a bit more, since they don’t just talk to O5-2, their colleague, and ask him what’s wrong. But they also don’t react like they’re genuinely concerned he’s a security threat, instead just letting him continue on while they sneak about having secret votes behind his back. I think it might work better for me if the other O5s either talk to him on a personal level before tampering with SCP-XXXX, or if they act more like there’s genuine concerns he might not be trustworthy.

I hope this was helpful, and good luck with your article :)