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A collaboration between TwistedGears and I! We both got stuck with getting feedback from others so after a certain point of time, we just decided to take what we had and put it up on the site. We hope you enjoy it, and ask for any feedback you give on this!
Thanks to Conwell, Crs_to_Baal, and thedeadlymoose and others (who's names I've forgotten) for feedback on this.
To promote translations of my work and thank all the authors for their hard work, I am linking to them here in addition to my author page.
Thank you all!
So the concept here is pretty simple really. Though it's very hard to describe. That means that if you're gonna execute it well, you need to make double damn sure that the reader understands what it is very quickly so you can dive into the story you want to tell. I went far too long into reading this without understanding it. Which normally is fine if the concept is something really really interesting and gives me an "aha" moment. But this doesn't do that.
The idea is something that we've seen on the site in multiple skips. There's a bit of a twist on the concept, but nothing outstanding. There's a lot here to describe a very simple idea, and it doesn't feel like it pays off the effort to read it.
The first two sentences of the description, as an example, reference the SCP Foundation using a version of this thing. That's a huge deal. But you don't expand on that. You just say it, and then the story moves to focus on Anderson. The last thing you want to do with a concept this hard to describe is introduce red herrings. Because now you got my mind focused on "Wait, did that just say the Foundation is using this sort of thing to preserve secrecy? How does that work?".
I think, to be frank and honest here, that your best story thread is the Foundation, not Anderson. Of course an GOI or POI is using it this way. There's nothing surprising about that. But the Foundation creating/using something like this that then gets used by others and then gets out of control? That could hook my interest.
As it stands, this is bland and it meanders. The concept doesn't carry the piece. The Anderson tie-ins don't add to the skip and they don't feel like they add to Anderson. They're just there.
The dialogue works for me. It felt natural, actually maybe a little too casual but that's a personal preference. I don't like strikethroughs but we talked about that in chat. I am eager to see this improved upon, because it has grand potential. Good luck with the piece.
Is this at all related to the thing in TG's Learning the Alphabet series where people (specifically Aldon) are unable to figure out Spicy Crust Pizza is tied to the Foundation until it's spelled out for them?
How do you mean "related to"? If you mean if this was inspired by it, some inspiration for the idea certainly came from that, yeah.
EDIT: TG ninja yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Huzzah! You finally did the thing!
I'm not going to pretend like I don't have a bias in upvoting this article. It takes the idea of the Anderson PoI and moves it in a neat direction that I never considered, and also ties in Gamma-13 and the UIU, which is one of my favorite GoIs on the site.
+1 guys. Glad to finally see this on the site.
Also, icwatudidthar with the number choice. Very clever.
I kinda felt like the interview is just reiterating the description. I mean, it's pretty clear what's going on, reading four people discussing it at length didn't add anything. No-vote for now, though I otherwise like this.
All due respect to Doctor Cimmerian, but I think how this was handled- a hat-tip kind of reference to a cognitohazard used by the Foundation- was perfect. The article is about an exterior threat: the focus shouldn't be on the Foundation. Though it would be awesome to see the idea fleshed out more fully in a tale. Also, upvoted at least partially for 'MTF PSI-12 ("Madvillainy").'
I'm glad someone liked the MTF name :3 References like that are what make writing fun.
I'm… not really on board with this one, for a variety of reasons. Minor disclaimer, I've read some but not all of the Anderson tales/SCPs, and I didn't/don't intend to click any of the links in this article.
Ok, here we go.
On the first couple readthroughs, I had trouble picturing the concept, particularly what it would look like to an affected person. Even after groking that, I'm still not clear on the transmission characteristics. The interview log was an interesting exploration of the consequences in a specific scenario, but it didn't really help me with either of these issues. The toy-box analogy, for example, didn't really clarify it at all.
The Foundation-originating cognitohazard… Well, it does makes sense. We definitely see the Foundation using memetic-kill images left and right, and we know these obvious Foundation fronts can operate openly, so why not have them use cognitihazards? Plus, the way this one is set up sounds great… until you think about it.
The problem is, the way this is implemented is incredibly stupid (in-universe) for several reasons:
1) You're deploying something that is inherently-amnestic resistant and incredibly easily spread on people who are… who? Members of the public asking the wrong questions? Deliberate infiltrators who are aware of the Foundation, and thus most likely part of a GoI? I just don't ever see a use case where releasing a ravenous infohazard erasing both connections with and the idea of the Foundation is a good idea. Unless you think you can give it to the West Coast Fifthists every month and hope it doesn't cross-contaminate the GOC, UIU, or U.S. government.
I mean, it prefect for Anderson, but who on earth were the Foundation going to use this on?
2) It's simple enough to modify that (assuming you can perceive it or copy the text) you can smudge out SCP and write anything. I mean, Jesus Christ people.
3) It's perfectly understood (they wrote it), but anomalous enough that when it's not being used by the Foundation, it's considered an SCP. This falls somewhere outside of the categories of demi-anomalous tech (e.g., amnestics, GOC Orange Suits) and secret anomaly use (Thaumiels) into a territory of double-standard I'm not comfortable with. If it was clear that Anderson had modified its effects in any way, maybe. But it's not.
4) How are the Foundation members immune to their version? What if they want to recruit someone already infected?
Ultimately, I could maybe see this deployed as a bureaucratic and all-around terrible idea and later revoked, and then ripped off by Anderson. Maybe. I think it's interesting enough that it wouldn't just be wacky incompetent Foundation hijinks. Unfortunately, that's not explored. We're just supposed to take it at face value that the secretary at Smith & Pool Consultants has 40 of these in their desk.
Also, the final letter. On the upside, it's one of my favorite Foundation-kiss-off notes ever, which is impressive because I usually detest them. On the downside, in the context of the article, I have absolutely no idea what any of it means. As I said, for this article, I'm not clicking links or reading tales, so the note for me has no meaning whatsoever. I'm not talking positive things like an air of mystery or an enigmatic character showing off. It's like a postcard from someone I've never met happened to fall on my SCP dossier.
Honestly, I think I'm gonna downvote. It relies too much on an incredibly flawed central premise (a Foundation device useless to the Foundation but prefect for Anderson), some clarity issues, and sections that rely on external content to their detriment.
While you make a lot of valid points that I can at least understand (and TG would be better able to answer RE: Foundation using their acronym as a cognitohazard, given he wrote that in a tale prior), there is one I can address:
and sections that rely on external content to their detriment
If you mean anything to do with the linking, then they're meant to be more universe-building and connecting than "you must read this in order to understand this". I could blackbox the SCP and remove the link to the tale, but I wanted to build on top of what Conwell has provided and give his stuff attention. Though, in a way, if it still doesn't work even if I removed those references, then it doesn't work as a stand-alone and there's a problem there.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. c:
Yeah, I tend to go with the "Stand on it's own" principle when reviewing, but I'm not opposed to linking and usually I wouldn't call it out. In this case it was just frustrating, because I really liked the note (it's pretty awesome!), and was trying to draw a connection with the article, but (I'm guessing) without reading the tale I just couldn't quite find the strings. I'll probably click the link and read it, I just didn't while reviewing.
That's an issue for me (similar with the clarity, it's possible I'm just sleep-deprived), but I'm voting mostly on the central anomaly and its origins.
I don't think it's just that you're sleep-deprived, unfortunately. I thought that was the case with the clarity for me as well when I read it last night, so I put it aside to read again today and found that I did still have to go over parts a couple times to really make sense of the whole thing.
I have to agree with your previous comment, as well as with Doctor Cimmerian when he says, "There's a lot here to describe a very simple idea, and it doesn't feel like it pays off the effort to read it." However, if the authors are up for the challenge, I do think there is a lot of promise in a slight reconceptualizing of this, more than enough to keep me from voting just yet.
I'm with Petrograd on this one - the Foundation uses anomalous items when required, but this seems like a pointless use, and implies one of two things:
1) The Foundation's version of the infohazard is easy enough to modify that a person/group with a focus on robotics was able to manage it - which means that every GoI could do the same, and this one is dangerous.
2) Anderson is highly skilled at creating infohazards, which is well outside their established market.
I could buy a group like AWCY? doing this purely for the art, I could see the Serpent's Hand or Chaos Insurgency doing it as a weapon, and I could see MC&D doing it (while immunizing their clients) to maintain privacy. It really doesn't work for me with Anderson, though.
1) The Foundation's version of the infohazard is easy enough to modify that a person/group with a focus on robotics was able to manage it - which means that every GoI could do the same, and this one is dangerous.
You're right in that the Foundation's original use of the infohazard wasn't well-secured enough for other groups to modify it once they knew what to look for, which is the important thing. It's not that the Foundation didn't try to make it secure, but they didn't anticipate how it'd get broken.
2) Anderson is highly skilled at creating infohazards, which is well outside their established market.
Well, Anderson didn't actually make it; he got by from a little help with his friends (J&F specifically). A story in which it would be detailed how Jakob and Finn came into contact with Anderson in the first place sort of fell by the wayside once TwistedGears stopped using the site, but we have our ideas.
The rewrite will have an MC&D GoI Format which details how MC&D and Anderson came into contact and allowed MC&D to use it. I will also say; Anderson doesn't intend to use this infohazard for the long-run. It's just to give his company enough of a headstart over the Foundation to continue doing what they do (and it kinda works; see Conwell's tale series).
I really like the idea that the SCP acronym in Foundation front companies is significant, I'm going to have to look up Learning the Alphabet if that's where that came from.
Additionally, I like how Bernard Zell says "skip". He's spent enough time with the Foundation that he's picking up their slang :)
Heh, thanks! That last bit was intentional.
Although, this SCP is currently undergoing a rewrite by TwistedGears and I, which may not have an interview anymore, but I'm not gonna retire these characters, that's for sure.
I'm glad to hear that. While it is brief, your portrayal of Merlo is great.
