SCP-2367 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-2367.

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LordSpy 24 Jul 2015 08:56

Was an upvote, but fridge logic popped in: why is the maladjustment just vertical? Why is it "invariably" when they could theoretically correct the trajectory?¹ I mean, the science for this is real world based: the planet's orbit around hte sun isn't perfect, so even if you didn't use absolute universal coordinates, the same solar coordinates will leave you in a bad place.

Don't get me wrong, the concept of Nazi solders materializing in the present and immediately falling to their deaths is hilarious, but the construction leads me to nitpick. +0.

Footnotes

1. If this was intentionally rigged and reading the linked tale (or knowing more history) should confirm that it's the likely case with Weber, I'm sorry.

Agent MacLeod 06 Aug 2015 20:12

Ok, it's about time I addressed this.

I'm going to write a supplement and/or tale that follows up and elaborates on this thing a bit sometime very soon, but what it boils down to is this: it's a calibration error put into place by a saboteur. The saboteur could have made this thing launch everyone who uses it into the sun or the cold vacuum of space or something, but instead, they turned a single adjusting dial just a few degrees off-center, so their work would be less visible.

The Foundation hasn't fixed it because the Ahnenerbe burned all of the blueprints, and the Foundation doesn't want to break it or make it even less usable by messing with it. So instead, after the first few D-Class splatted, they decided that everyone sent through would get a parachute. Then Nazis started splatting in the Berlin streets, so they decided to just wait until it was all over before playing with their new toy.

Idunno if I should edit anything now that the contest is over, but I have a feeling people might want to see more hints at what I just said here in the actual document.

Last edited on 06 Aug 2015 20:14 by Agent MacLeod Show more

Communism will win 24 Jul 2015 09:18

Eh. It's just a time machine with Nazi flavoring and a thrown-in Die Glocke reference. -1.

---

if your reading this your gay

Agent MacLeod 24 Jul 2015 12:46

1. I named it "Die Glocke" as part of an attempt to encourage more conspiracy theory fuel on this site. That's where we started, and we should hold to that.
2. The idea was that the absurdity of the situation described at the end would be funny enough to evoke upvotes. I understand that not everyone will find it funny and won't cry about it, but still, that was my intention.

weizhong 24 Jul 2015 12:12

I probably would've novoted, but referencing an existing tale (even if you did write it) seems a little…..iffy in terms of contest rules. I feel as though that, while not technically against the rules, it's kind of against the spirit.

Agent MacLeod 24 Jul 2015 12:20

Ok, someone suggested I link to the tale simply so it was clear who I was talking about. Contest peoples, will you allow me to make this edit?

Crayne 24 Jul 2015 12:36

I doubt removing a link constitutes a major edit. In addition, I'm really having trouble figuring out why referencing previously existing material shouldn't be allowed. I was the one who suggested crosslinking (because honestly, this is a perfect opportunity for a good crosslink) by the way.

Doctor Cimmerian 24 Jul 2015 16:24

/me puts on contest helper hat

I would say removing the link is a good idea here (and doesn't constitute a major edit).

As for the link itself: If we allowed people to post content before the contest and then link to it after it started people could've just written their supplements a day beforehand. This isn't the same thing, to be fair, but it's just as much against the spirit of the rules in my mind.

Agent MacLeod 24 Jul 2015 17:15

Edit made.

Eta Carinae 24 Jul 2015 12:40

Also thought (belatedly!) of the link to a tale, but… Upvoted anyway, because it's funny and clever. And I also want to add that deleting the POI link wouldn't be a problem: this skip stands by itself anyway.

MrWrong 24 Jul 2015 12:57

Pros:

• I like the usage of Operation Hammer. It adds a layer as to how the Foundation worked during WWII.

Cons:

• Must we have another anomalous Nazi-punk device? You'd think they lost WWII due to making Wonder-weapons all the time. But on a serious note, I am honestly tired of the cliche.
• If the Foundation already knows that it'll be raining Nazis in Berlin, why aren't they trying to empty the place right now (its population has been increasing since German reunification, and it's currently the second most populous city in the EU)? Time is of the essence here. At least if it happened in an empty Berlin, one can use the cover story of a surreal WWII film. If that happens in a populated Berlin, farewell to the masquerade. So my nitpick is the Foundation's lack of foresight.

Verdict: Downvote

Last edited on 24 Jul 2015 13:00 by MrWrong Show more

Agent MacLeod 27 Jul 2015 04:51

Ok, going to address your two cons:

• The Nazis IRL wasted a ton of money on weapons projects that couldn't work, or that they didn't have the time to make work. Not time machines or anything like that, but a ton of other Wunderwaffe that simply wouldn't (and didn't) function. (They also built a functioning stealth fighter-bomber, which is terrifying, but they never got to use it, so it's cool.)
• The Foundation didn't know it was going to become a Nazi thunderstorm until fairly recently. They thought it would just be a dozen or so Ahnenerbe officers, maybe a general or two (a Nazi drizzle, comparatively), not whole fucking platoons and such. It would have been a waste of effort evacuating Berlin before, and they don't have time to now. They're scrambling to come up with a cover story as it is.

I knew this was risky when I wrote it. If I can rewrite it to be more entertaining after the contest, I'll look into it. Hopefully some people can get some enjoyment out of it in the meantime.

Dr Hush 24 Jul 2015 13:09

Others may disagree, but I dislike SCP documentation which explains common knowledge.

Why would the Foundation personnel reading this not know that "National Socialist German Worker's Party" was "colloquially known as the "Nazi party"". And if by some chance they didn't, why would a document describing dead soldiers falling from the sky explain political terminology of their government?

And why do they need to know the English translation of "Die Glocke"?

I do have a soft spot for Persons of Interest though.

Agent MacLeod 24 Jul 2015 15:42

In chat, someone mentioned that "Nazi" was actually slang, and that official documentation would call them the NSDAP or National Socialists. I figured that a ton of people IRL might not be familiar with the term, so I added that footnote in.

TL333s 24 Jul 2015 22:35

1) Nazis are really overdone, just in general.

2) I honestly don't like that they can just say why it was made. Stating that instead of stating what they've been able to figure out of its functionality really kills the idea for me.

Agent MacLeod 24 Jul 2015 22:54

Noted. Do you suppose post-contest edits or contest-disqualifying edits would resolve these issues?

Also, the primary reason I chose Nazis instead of literally any other WWII participant is because I intend to use this in response to a specific tale-writing challenge.

Last edited on 24 Jul 2015 22:56 by Agent MacLeod Show more

TL333s 25 Jul 2015 00:53

#2, yes. #1, not so much. You'd pretty much have to rewrite it wholesale.

Agent MacLeod 25 Jul 2015 01:06

Ok. I don't want to lose the contest tag, so I'm leaving it where it is right now, but if this is at a mediocre rating after the contest, I'll see about doing something.

As it is, this is not performing as well as I'd like, and negative feedback that points in a positive direction is very much welcome.

Dr Lonewolf 25 Jul 2015 11:59

I liked it. I'm not burned out on "Strange Nazi Experiments." The translation/definitions make perfect sense to me. The Foundation is multicultural; some parts of the world have no idea of what the Nazi party was actually called, nor heard of "the bell."

I have two areas of confusion:

• How did the creators not dial it in short to discover the altitude problem before massive use? I do like the idea of it raining artillery pieces, but you'd think they would have known that. If we could test it in hour/day increments, so could they.
• Why that particular date? And how do we know? Reference to a document captured with the device, or the remains of a journal would go a long way in my book.

Outside of that, much love. +1

Agent MacLeod 27 Jul 2015 04:43

My thought is that it's actually been sabotaged, and that the Nazis who built this thing are not the same Nazis who fled through it, but I'm pushing the wordcount and the time limit, so I won't really be elaborating on this train of thought until after the contest.

As far as the particular date, that's just the date the Foundation found it set to when they got there. I have IRL reasons for it, but haven't come up with a good in-universe explanation.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Author Post... A few days late... Look, you don't know my life, ok?

Agent MacLeod 27 Jul 2015 05:05

Huge thanks to Crayne, who provided a ton of feedback.

I have no idea how he knows so much about Nazis. Is history education just that much superior in the Netherlands (Crayne lives in the Netherlands, right)? Is it just a Europe thing? Idunno. His feedback was fantastic, as was his enthusiasm.

A ton of other people provided feedback, and are absolutely welcome to remind me of their contribution here.

No spoilers or anything, just interpret what isn't said how you will. It's pretty clear that this won't win the contest, but I had fun writing it, and I hope a large majority of you guys enjoy reading it!

Re: Author Post... A few days late... Look, you don't know my life, ok?

sirpudding 27 Jul 2015 05:13

It's pretty clear that this won't win the contest,

I've decided to imagine that the contest is only between you and I. Right now you are winning! Yay! :)

Re: Author Post... A few days late... Look, you don't know my life, ok?

Crayne 27 Jul 2015 06:38

I have no idea how he knows so much about Nazis. Is history education just that much superior in the Netherlands (Crayne lives in the Netherlands, right)? Is it just a Europe thing? Idunno. His feedback was fantastic, as was his enthusiasm.

Well, there's a couple of reasons (and trust me, I am not an expert by any means).

1. Dutch high school is available at a couple of levels, the highest being VWO (Preparatory Scientific Education), and at that level, history education is both broad and in-depth.
2. The Netherlands are literally right next to Germany, and were invaded during the Second World War. This makes it a pretty prominent subject in history education.
3. I have always been interested in WWII, my grandfathers and -mothers having lived through it and having told me stories about both the hardships and the good things that came from it. In addition, they never thought in terms of good and evil, black and white, they thought in terms of people and unfortunate circumstances. I think it was that approach to their experiences that really fostered my interest. If they hadn't, WWII would just have been real life Star Wars to a little kid.
4. I have two WWII/Occult Nazi-tech scips on the site, so I've needed to do a lot of research in order to make stuff feel somewhat believable (which is a pretty odd thing to say really, considering the subject ;)), so I know a few things. And I mean a few. Again, I am not an expert by any means.

Last edited on 27 Jul 2015 06:39 by Crayne Show more

Kalinin 04 Aug 2015 19:30

I kind of enjoy the notion of a pre-ordained event that will be such a massive pain in the ass to contain that the Foundation must work for decades in advance to deal with it. The fact that the outcome is unknown to the reader in such a situation is a nice little chilling detail to ponder. Also, somewhat counterintuitively, I like that this avoided the typical urge for a lot of writers, here and elsewhere, to make things as mind-numbing as possible when employing time-fuckery.

I enjoyed this enough that I won't change my vote because of it, but I am sick to death of Nazi superscience. I'm kind of sick of Nazis in general, to be honest, even though I'm going to inflict some more of them on the site in a couple of weeks. I just don't see why it had to be Nazis for this, except for the sake of the title of the article. That whole phenomenon is a discussion for another time, though.

Agent MacLeod 24 Oct 2015 03:35

I just don't see why it had to be Nazis for this, except for the sake of the title of the article. That whole phenomenon is a discussion for another time, though.

I would like to have that discussion now, Kalinin, if you will.

Evonix 06 Aug 2015 20:59

I would remove the backward displacement, time travel has to many possible exploits.

Agent MacLeod 06 Aug 2015 21:19

+Spoilers

Yes. A time machine can be exploited. This is precisely what's going to happen.

Ever wonder what the deal with SCP-196 is?

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