(account deleted) 20 Jul 2015 02:22
I don't think I would headcanon it, although it's well-written, and pretty interesting. +1.
SCP-2925 / Discussion
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This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-2925.
(account deleted) 20 Jul 2015 02:22
This one was up a long time ago, but I self-deleted it after a few weeks. The main criticism about the original was that the addendum with a doctor's note was far too out of character and didn't seem logical for a Foundation doctor.
So, I removed the addendum, expanded it into the set of documents you see now that (hopefully) make more sense, and rewrote a lot of things. Hope you enjoy.
EDIT: Picture sources.
The first one is public domain.
The second one is an actual picture of a reproduction from the Codex Borgia, but the Codex Borgia is several hundred years old, and has passed into the public domain.
Doesn't store angular momentum? Changes in gravitational energy with moving objects (especially the moon and the sun)? Or light pressure? Or elecromagnetic energy? Or from collisions with neutrinos and other weakly interacting particles? Or am I missing something?
It stores all type of energy. Energy from light, which is electromagnetic radiation/energy is stored, hence why shining a light on it is bad.
Angular momentum is not energy, it's a quantity.
While I'm not an expert on neutrinos or subatomic physics by any means, the object is stated to have no limits in energy absorption.
It stores all type of energy. Energy from light, which is electromagnetic radiation/energy is stored, hence why shining a light on it is bad.
Except when you photograph it?
How are you isolating it from long wavelength stuff like radio, x-rays and gamma rays?
Angular momentum is not energy, it's a quantity.
Fair enough. Doesn't a rotating system transfer kinetic energy to objects in it? Maybe it doesn't. I have always been fuzzy about the relationship between angular systems and kinetic energy, but if the earth suddenly ceased to exist wouldn't this thing go flying off with some considerable velocity?
While I'm not an expert on neutrinos or subatomic physics by any means, the object is stated to have no limits in energy absorption.
Wouldn't high energy cosmic radiation add up to amazing amounts of energy after a while?
Except when you photograph it?
No, photographs still impart energy, but the photo was taken before the Foundation lost track of how much energy was within it. I only say shining a light on it is bad because it adds energy when the Foundation doesn't know how much is in it.
How are you isolating it from long wavelength stuff like radio, x-rays and gamma rays?
The dedicated facility has heavy blast-resistant walls, which are generally very thick and made of sturdy, reinforced materials. Given that a few feet of concrete will stop x-rays and gamma rays, that's not a huge issue. Radio waves are even easier to block.
Doesn't a rotating system transfer kinetic energy to objects in it?
I wouldn't say that the rotating system transfers kinetic energy, so much as the rotating system itself possesses kinetic energy. Rotating systems possess kinetic energy as well, but it's calculated differently (You have to use omega for angular velocity and rotational inertia). Still the same energy though, so the object would pick it up with no problem.
Wouldn't high energy cosmic radiation add up to amazing amounts of energy after a while?
Yes, but the atmosphere exists to protect us from that kind of radiation. Having any of it pierce the atmosphere isn't that common, and having it reach the surface is very rare, and highly unlikely to hit any particular part of the surface. That's like protecting against a meteor impacting the object; it's just not very likely.
I wouldn't say that the rotating system transfers kinetic energy, so much as the rotating system itself possesses kinetic energy. Rotating systems possess kinetic energy as well, but it's calculated differently (You have to use omega for angular velocity and rotational inertia). Still the same energy though, so the object would pick it up with no problem.
So why isn't it picking up huge amounts of energy from the rotation of the Earth, the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, the movement of the solar system around the galactic center and so on?
Also what about changes in gravitational energy as the moon orbits the Earth and the Earth orbits the Sun?
Yes, but the atmosphere exists to protect us from that kind of radiation. Having any of it pierce the atmosphere isn't that common, and having it reach the surface is very rare, and highly unlikely to hit any particular part of the surface. That's like protecting against a meteor impacting the object; it's just not very likely.
Aren't there all sorts of particles that are sleeting through the Earth and aren't stopped by basically anything? Again neutrinos immediately spring to mind as of this kind.
So why isn't it picking up huge amounts of energy from the rotation of the Earth
That's all part of the system. It's not a change in the system, because those values are constant for the Earth-object system. It's not a change in energy for its system, since we treat the Earth as our reference point.
Also what about changes in gravitational energy as the moon orbits the Earth and the Earth orbits the Sun?
The gravitational energy from the Moon is so ridiculously tiny (using Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation for our g-constant) that it's essentially negligible.
Aren't there all sorts of particles that are sleeting through the Earth and aren't stopped by basically anything?
Yes, but you have to remember that neutrinos are measured in terms of fractions of an electron volt (eV). 1 eV is equal to 1.60217657 × 10^-19 joules, which is roughly 600 quadrillion time the amount of energy it takes to raise a 10 gram ball 1 meter. That's ridiculously negligible.
That's all part of the system. It's not a change in the system, because those values are constant for the Earth-object system. It's not a change in energy for its system, since we treat the Earth as our reference point.
Okay that's what I was wondering, but like I said I don't really have a good understanding of rotational systems. Thanks!
Well, this object has a cross sectional area of about 79 cm2 * (7*1010 particles/cm2)*4001 Kev/particle * 103 ev/Kev * 1.6*10-19 J/ev * 1.4*1010 s (c. 1500-1954)=1900 MJ
Yeah I guess it is pretty negligible!
It occurs to me that kinetic and thermal energy from collisions with atmospheric gases might be pretty significant though. I will try to figure that out…
Edit: Whoops, I'm tired. Area is off by a factor of 25. Fixing … No not done embarrassing myself. Fixing.
Edit2: 700 J/kg°C*1 kg * 20°C= 1400 J. If it absorbs that every second from collisions with air molecules that's 1400J/s*1.4*1010 s=1.96 * 107 MJ. That's only half a percent of of a Mt equivalent. I guess having a perfect energy sponge is less impressive than I'd imagine.
Okay done embarrassing myself for a while now. Thanks for your patience!
Footnotes
1. Typical solar neutrino, ignoring high energy neutrinos (up to 18 Mev).
Lesser nitpick:
All requests are to be denied, by order of the O5 Council. Should diplomatic agents make any mention of SCP-2925, Foundation assets are not to respond in kind.
Won't this fit more in the procedures, rather than the description?
I am so, so sorry for what I'm about to say… but the orb in the picture looks like it's probably Quartz, not glass.
+1 for anomalous massive explosion bubble with side of extradimensional deity and chaos sprinkles, anyway.
weizhong, I think you may have gazumped daveyoufool's suggestiong of a "Baldr-class" SCP here, albeit unwittingly!
1) I found the opening section (where it's just an energy bomb) quite slow, meaning that I nearly stopped reading before getting to the more interesting CI/Aztec/extra-dimensional entity stuff. I prefer implications generally, and perhaps this would make the skip too obtuse, but I think you could get away with deleting:
- the third paragraph of the description ("Testing has been unable…") and the associated bullet point list
- the eighth paragraph of the description (the discovery section - especially as dropping it from a plane as a bomb is mentioned later by the CI)
- the last two paragraphs of the description - none of the diplomatic stuff goes anywhere, and there's not enough of it to be a genuine misdirect
- the upgrade request. I think all of the points that this memo makes explicit are sufficiently implicit from the previous interrogation logs, and "deal should make both sides veeery happy" (or something similar) seems a good enough ending.
That still begs the question of why the Description doesn't explicitly state "capable of anomalous energy creation and storage, and potentially capable of communication with extra-dimensional beings", but I can understand why this needs to be the case in the service of the story, and personally that wouldn't stop me upvoting.
2) It took me two reads to understand that you are distinguishing "soul energy" from other types of energy, in terms of its validity as an offering (at least, I think that's the idea). Dr Golovkin's statement:
Energy is the basic unit of currency for the entire universe…every action requires some form of it, and all entities are bound to the requirements of energy consumption…even gods. Offering energy is a way of currying favor.
suggested to me that any energy was a suitable offering, making me wonder why the Soviet bombing drill hadn't made contact with Epsilon. Not sure if there's a way of making that more explicit?
3) How has the Foundation measured the absorption of energy? If it has to be cracked (which itself adds energy) to get an explosion, how can the Foundation be accurate in measuring released energy vs duplicated energy? Especially with energy types where it's difficult to measure how much has been duplicated (sound, light). How does the Foundation know how much of the surrounding light/sound/heat has been duplicated - can we measure the range by (for example) the length of the spring whose elastic energy is duplicated? This might just be my very rough knowledge of physics, but it was a distraction at a point in the article where a distraction stopped me getting to the good stuff.
4) I can't parse the date "11/31/12", which appears twice - is that 31 December 2011? If so, it's not in the same form as the other dates.
5) "currently contained at a dedicated facility for its containment" - suggest deleting "for its containment", as that's what "dedicated facility" implies.
6) I can see an argument as to why this is Euclid, but it doesn't pass the "Locked Box" test on that score.
With regard to the suggested deletions, I like most of what is in the article. The horror (which I'll detail below) needs a little nudge and I think the upgrade request fits the bill nicely. As for the rest…
3) How has the Foundation measured the absorption of energy? If it has to be cracked (which itself adds energy) to get an explosion, how can the Foundation be accurate in measuring released energy vs duplicated energy? …
Sounds as though they lifted it, dropped it, then cracked it? Dangerous to be certain, but this is Foundation business…
4) I can't parse the date "11/31/12", which appears twice - is that 31 December 2011? If so, it's not in the same form as the other dates.
Month/Day/Year Format, and it's consistent so far as I can tell. Common in the US, but less so elsewhere I understand.
6) I can see an argument as to why this is Euclid, but it doesn't pass the "Locked Box" test on that score.
It's a tesseract for some kind of blood-god which a splinter group may have already made contact with THROUGH this very object… That's explicitly stated here:
We have no idea whether or not the Insurgency was able to successfully complete the transfer mentioned in their internal memo
If you're arguing for Safe classification, that's a stretch.
To my eye you've got a fragile, glass nuke with a currently unknown yield (scary) which may or may not have Cthulhu jump out and want something from you at any moment (horrifying).
And what exactly might this nasty deity want? Worse yet, what might they do if you can't provide it?
For me, +1.
Everything PrimeSol said is correct, except for one minor thing. The object is not necessarily linked to a single deity, it can be used with essentially any of them.
Soul energy is not explicitly different from other kinds of energy, not even when offering. Making an explosion happen is very different from an offering though, because it's like doing something in a god's name versus directly offering them a gift.
As for the locked box test, I thought it was a good compromise to establish that if people are actively trying to take the thing out of the locked box, it fits in with the containment risk of the object.
It's not bad. It's accepting the underlying logic of a world where anomalous organizations openly attack each other and self-apply labels like "The Chaos Insurgency" that I have issues with.
rupturing the object is quite easy
Tone. Other than that it's cool. +1
Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!
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page revision: 2, last edited: 15 Jan 2023 15:06
