SCP-4857 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-4857.

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Hopefully this time goes a little better.

Pr10r 09 Sep 2019 18:29

Or maybe it won't. Who knows?

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This image used to make the Ehwaz-1 logo (the non-Foundation bit) is borrowed from:

Original Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Social_Network_Analysis_Visualization.png
Creator: Grandjean, Martin (2014).

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The Ehwaz in the logo is just an Ehwaz. I dont think I took it from anywhere and if I did it's just 4 lines.

I think I got the creator correct there.

Edit: Now this hasn't tanked (god willing) I'm going to thank people. Didn't do it before because nobody wants to be associated with a sinking ship. Roll credits!

Thanks to:
LilyFlower
AbsentmindedNihilist
gee0765
LadyKatie
DrAkimoto
KadeLeMuse
UraniumEmpire
Rehevkor
Bluedanoob
Metaphysician
T Rutherford
Bunton
Nanoro

Also probably other people who posted on critters and not PMs so I can't find your names.

Edit 2: Holy shit it broke 100. Thanks so much, and double thanks to everyone who helped.

Last edited on 23 Sep 2019 11:52 by Pr10r Show more

+1

gee0765 09 Sep 2019 19:55

When I critted this draft, I wasn’t really a fan. However, the author has responded to basically all of my issues and I feel happy upvoting this now. Well done!

MaliceAforethought 09 Sep 2019 20:05

This was absolutely stunning up until the literal "note at the end", which put rather a damper on things by basically recapping everything you already told the reader in the description. Trim that down (or find a different way to convey the information) and you've got a decent article — otherwise, you've got a fairly bloated concept that falls into all the same potholes as the various other "hidden information" scips. No-vote for now :/

Last edited on 09 Sep 2019 20:08 by MaliceAforethought Show more

LordSmiley 24 Dec 2021 14:17

Severely disagree. Maybe I'm just not very smart, but the note at the end actually helped me to fully understand what the SCP was really about instead of just giving myself a headache trying to understand another reality-screwing abstract phenomenon.

Nagiros 10 Sep 2019 00:23

[This was needlessly hostile and I apologize. Dunno why I reacted the way I did; you're doing good.]

Last edited on 28 Jan 2020 04:47 by Nagiros Show more

Jack Ike 10 Sep 2019 00:33

I agree with mostof your points, excluding the 'dual class' and 'colouration of text' points.

In regards to the dual classing - the colours show that the class of the anomaly varies on which Model turns out to be true; if Blue Model is true, it's Euclid. If Red Model, it's a Keter.

In regards to the colouration, I'll admit its mostly redundant since it's only applied to 'Model Red'/'Model Blue' text - but it also clarifies my above 'dual classing' point.

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As my own quip, I'm unconvinced this file needs this much effort to be concealed - wouldn't there be a way to abuse the anomaly to ensure infosec, if the anomaly didn't automatically hide the file from Out-Group to preserve the gap?

Last edited on 10 Sep 2019 00:33 by Jack Ike Show more

Nagiros 10 Sep 2019 02:23

I don't have a issue with non-standard classes, don't get me wrong. I just feel there's a better and more formal way to announce the duality instead of "Euclid/Keter", especially when the colors haven't been defined yet. I believe kaktus had a multi-class SCP somewhere that worked well…

Pr10r 10 Sep 2019 00:40

• the bolding is a formatting thing. The bold sections are the parts of the boilerplate which are specific to 4857
• yup, but they're what I feel an actual empty SCP slot would look like. Some record keeping about previous items to fill the slot and some documentation saying whether or not the slot has been compromised in some way
• I feel they work, but you probably have a point
• my bad
• also my bad, may edit something
• I feel I can say that's a personal thing. I can probably find worse things they've done.
• yeah it's the weakest part of the whole thing. I got a lot of people who didn't understand it without it though so idk.
• also also my bad

Thanks for the comment, I'll bear it in mind if I do a rewrite

Nagiros 10 Sep 2019 02:32

+ show block

the bolding is a formatting thing. The bold sections are the parts of the boilerplate which are specific to 4857

I'm aware, and it's weirdly cool to see what an empty slot looks like. I can't imagine the bolding would look that way, though; it seems suspicious, which is what you're trying to avoid.

yup, but they're what I feel an actual empty SCP slot would look like.

I'm just confused about what it brings to the story, either through narrative or theme. It would be a cool place to emphasize deception and paranoia as a motif, what with all the redactions, but nothing listed is intriguing enough to get me paranoid and the article doesn't seem to capitalize on either theme.

I feel I can say that's a personal thing. I can probably find worse things they've done.

I'm not one to shy away from the Foundation doing bad things; most of the articles and tales I write are about just that (SCP-4051, SCP-4415, Systems Patch). It just seems out-of-character for a Veil-breaking operation to be considered when the threat presented is so low/ambiguous.

I'm totally down for this idea, it's just that the execution doesn't work for me. You do you!

TL333s 10 Sep 2019 02:57

This is fantastic.

The Out-Group must not be made aware that it has been detected at any cost.

I mean, this sentence by itself is a perfect example of how you hook.

But the whole thing is great because it's one of those big "is it or isn't it?" things the Foundation can never truly know about. The hush-hush "you're MTF now" setup is well executed, but more important is that central ethical question that looms over the entire discussion. And like… this is xenophobia, racism, the gross tribalism that underpins every single aspect of human society. This is big!

I'd like to think that because they've been dithering for thirty years, Method Blue is in fact correct, but can you ever really be sure?

Drblackbox 10 Sep 2019 03:57

You wanna know something else uncertain that makes this all more disturbing?

Last edited on 10 Sep 2019 03:57 by Drblackbox Show more

NotOrteil 14 Dec 2021 20:17

yeah I was wondering if that was the case.

LordSmiley 24 Dec 2021 14:18

"Wait a minute Patrick…I'm the SCP!"

Ikonovich 10 Sep 2019 06:20

I'd really like to see a whole spin-off foundation verse built on this concept.

SketchyTh0ughts 10 Sep 2019 09:01

What if its a meme that affects the "In Group"? spoopy

Anyway, like most other people here, I feel that the end note kills the article. Its a bit like that summary book report you have to fill out in school. You could have trimmed it down. Apart from that, very interesting article! I love the idea. I must say Im a blue man myself :)

Oh and do the former skips mean anything I wonder… 3125 caught my attention.

Ima quit rambling, just take the upvote.

Last edited on 10 Sep 2019 09:03 by SketchyTh0ughts Show more

Pr10r 10 Sep 2019 10:30

I wanted to have a previous designation for the SCP to make Ehwaz feel a bit more ramshackle and trying to skirt around notice. 3125 was the first example I could find of an SCP where the designation is relevant to the article, a case where the Ehwaz team could have been forced to move their SCP to 4857 because someone really needed a specific slot for their SCP. 2317 would also have worked but that's a huge, well-known article and I didn't want people being disappointed when there was no real link (it's also one of my absolute favourites). 3125 is very good but I feel a bit less well known.

The summary letter is indeed a bit shit, but it's up now and I dont think people would take kindly to a rewrite within 24 hrs.

xplkqlkcassia 20 Sep 2019 17:30

it's perfectly okay to do rewrites after you've put the article up, especially if it's something that majorly improves the article

peppermint_legos 10 Sep 2019 16:52

This is exactly the kind of article that I absolutely love this site for engendering. A weird idea, taken to its logical extreme, then dressed up in science talk that reveals just enough horror to plant that seed of dread.

Excellent job. Thank you for your work!

+ minor notes

• I really liked the decoy at the start: personally I wouldn't change a thing about the "this slot is empty" sections.
• You misspelled "separate" basically every time. Do a find/replace for "seperate"
• The explanation of the phenomenon is probably some of the most cerebral stuff I've read on this site: lots of concepts-within-concepts talk. For the most part it works, but if you do some editing that's the section I'd focus on tightening up.
• I agree with the others that the end letter is too long, but I think we need something. Right now it's not giving us the benefit of the doubt that we've read the article: the letter should only include new info, rather than rehashing the old stuff. A perfect example of this is your final line, which is a perfect "button" to end on because it summarizes the situation in a new way: "We could be sitting on a landmine, or on a cushion, and either way it would really be a poor idea to get up right now."

Dr Cuihmne 12 Sep 2019 00:39

I do not understand how you people come up with these, let alone communicate them in a clear and entertaining manner.

+1.

Dat-Mudkip 13 Sep 2019 23:44

I almost backed out of it before I clicked on the last drop-down.
Sure glad I didn't. Thanks for fucking with everyone, and everything.

+1

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Some days I struggle to speak English. That's a big problem when you consider that it is the only language I know…

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