SCP-179 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-179.

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Thaumiel WHAT!?

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 18:18

Thaumiel humanoid.

People who encouraged me to work in this include Crayne, Kalinin and Vlank. Thanks again for telling me this could make it and giving me so much help.

Also thanks to SoullessSingularity, Weizhong, TwistedGears, AndarielHalo and Tagliafierro for their corresponding feedback and patience. : )

Now then. I know this concept (and how I've handled it), is not conventional. How it's risky, too long, too technical and perhaps too boring. However, life consists on taking risks and my internal image of Foundation business is technical, practical, calm and boring; so what the hell, let's post this.

Both the Archive logo and the memetic agent were made by me. I hope they do not feel too out of place. In any case, please leave feedback, be it pleasingly positive or destructively negative.

Also, it was a pleasure to know you all. Edit: I liked the idea and I knew I wasn't alone, but really, this is beyond what I expected. Thanks for your support, people! I'm very glad you liked it! :_D

Authorship disclaimer!

This is a translation and a rewrite of SCP-ES-026, Sauelsuesor, written by Dr Reach. Yes, by the same author. Have to be thorough with legal stuff.

Last edited on 04 Jun 2014 19:00 by Dr Reach Show more

Von Pincier 03 Jun 2014 18:26

It was a gamble, and I think it paid off.

It's so nice to see a benevolent Thaumiel.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 18:44

Glad you liked it! Although I'd call it "benign" more than "benevolent".

Dedivax 03 Jun 2014 18:53

I think this works very nicely, though it seems I have a higher tolerance for technical pages than some people. Only thing bugging me is the repetition of "locked to the rotation axis of sol" near the beginning of the description, it feels very redundant.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 19:01

Got it, dear Jack Noir. _{Please don't stab me.} I'll rework it or erase it as soon as I can.

Jacob Masters 27 May 2016 14:16

Two Homestucks on the SCP Wiki. I do believe my day has been made.

A Random Day 03 Jun 2014 18:56

As soon as I saw Thaumiel, I was worried. The only Thaumiel-class objects I like are SCP-2000 and SCP-1968, and quite frankly they both stretch the limits.

However, I do feel this uses the Thaumiel very well. It is also an excellent replacement for the old SCP-179.
However, by itself, it has some redeeming qualities, but I also dislike the concept of a benevolent watch god. It feels boring and overly dramatic. No vote for now.

Also, aren't most Thaumiel-class objects hidden, either behind a fake class designation(1968), or a check of some sort(SCP-001-Roget, SCP-2000)? Not that it needs it, but Thaumiel represents a highly classified object, so I feel that lore-wise it should have either a cover story or some kind of credentials check.

Last edited on 03 Jun 2014 18:58 by A Random Day Show more

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 19:06

However, by itself, it has some redeeming qualities, but I also dislike the concept of a benevolent watch god. It feels boring and overly dramatic. No vote for now.

Overly dramatic? Well, I know this is a matter of tastes, but I'd like to know where do you get that feeling from… just curious, and willing to modify it if the changes do not break the current configuration and tech-speak parts.

Or the interview. Barring grammar problems, the interview remains as-is.

Also, aren't most Thaumiel-class objects hidden, either behind a fake class designation(1968), or a check of some sort(SCP-001-Roget, SCP-2000)? Not that it needs it, but Thaumiel represents a highly classified object, so I feel that lore-wise it should have either a cover story or some kind of credentials check.

That's the entire point of the administrative warning ES-026. Also, the Foundation erased the memories of all involved personnel and kept a cut down file just so those personnel knew what they were working at before being moved (head canon bit) because memory redaction therapy works best that way. You were doing something, guys; this is what you were doing. The rest, you're not meant to know. Go away before we tazer you.

A Random Day 03 Jun 2014 19:54

I don't know quite what… probably the interview log. It is extremely old-god style (if that even is a thing) and that feels clichéd to me.

As for ES-026, I feel like that comes a bit late. Yes, it is there, but only AFTER SCP-179 is revealed to be Thaumiel. As far as I can tell, the nature of a Thaumiel object is only revealed after the warning/check/collapsible/whatever. Maybe that's unnecessary, but it feels like something that the Foundation would do, lore-wise.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 20:01

the nature of a Thaumiel object

… is beneath the Administrative Warning. Those properties of interest to the Foundation, the details of its movements and the fact that it is sentient makes it (her) a Thaumiel, and that is very classified.

Cpbald 04 Jun 2014 03:55

Wait, just quickly, by old 179, do you mean MY 179?

E: Damn it, wrong post to reply to.

Last edited on 04 Jun 2014 03:55 by Cpbald Show more

Anborough 03 Jun 2014 18:57

I upvoted from +6 and it went to +12.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 19:02

… this may be anomalous. Gotta test it! Vote on another one! :D _Thanks!

(account deleted) 03 Jun 2014 21:15

I'm so glad that Sauelsuesor is posted finally here, and to see it's rating going up swiftly! : )

Good job, Reach.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 21:19

I didn't expect it and will not complain. :_)

djkaktus 03 Jun 2014 21:58

I absolutely love this. I love it so much I can't even handle it. This is so good.

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 22:13

Glad you like it good sir or madam. ^^

Communism will win 03 Jun 2014 22:09

How big is it?

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h

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 22:12

Not exactly spoilers.

SCP-179 has been defined as a human female of undetermined ethnic group of between twenty and forty years of age. Its entire bodily surface is covered in or composed of a matte black material. Its hair appears to be composed of this material, measures over 34 km long and is constantly pushed away by solar wind.

Human size with a 34 km mane. Add to that the fact that her hair can be highly reflective, and you've got:

However, this part of SCP-179 seems to reflect variable amounts of sunlight — this reflection being the phenomenon that indicated its existence to Foundation astrophysicists during 1940.

Basically, 1940 Foundation saw a long candlelight erupting from the Sun.

Communism will win 03 Jun 2014 22:34

Yes, but how big is it?

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h

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 22:40

It's a humanoid woman. Two meters tall tops, probably less. Small, yes, but not beyond the Foundation's resources.

Last edited on 03 Jun 2014 22:40 by Dr Reach Show more

Communism will win 03 Jun 2014 23:05

That should be in the article, I think, because I had no idea what scale I was working with when reading it.

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h

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 23:14

Isn't it implied in "SCP-179 has been defined as a human female of undetermined ethnic group of between twenty and forty years of age"? I mean, if we can evaluate its estimated age and call her a human, not just a humanoid…

o0 29 Oct 2014 18:27

I feel like there are a couple of problems with that description. It says she is a human, not a humanoid, but that is obviously not true since she is not an actual human. Actual humans cant live in space without protection, nor have the supernatural ability to detect objects in space headed towards earth. In fact, by foundation standards, all SCPs are non-humans by definition, no matter how "human-like" they seem.

Thus, to most people reading that sentence "human female" would automatically be interpreted as "has an appearance like a human female", and "between twenty and forty years of age" would be automatically transformed into "has the appearance of a human within that age range". And this would be the right interpretation, because unless the foundation took DNA samples on her and did extensive testing of some sort we cannot possibly know what her actual age is or whether she was originally human, all we know is what her appearance resembles.

Because of all this, I think it's perfectly natural that most people would not conclude anything about her size from just that statement. Besides, even if it weren't needed, since precision and accuracy are obviously vital to the foundation, wouldn't it be better to specifically state a piece of information to make sure everyone who might need it, gets it, rather than leave it up to implication?

Jacob Masters 27 May 2016 14:18

Yeah, I got the expression she was extremely giant.

Litfried 09 Jun 2014 16:39

Wait wait wait wait wait it's an ordinary-sized human with hair that is thirty-four kilometres long?! That's… totally not how I was picturing it. I really think you should be clearer about the size of this thing.

Overall… hmm. I'm really not sure. I like the artwork you've created (the meme, the logo), but it all feels a bit cliché. The whole 'we're not telling you everything -> clearance check -> memetic kill agent' shtick seems overdone to me now, and not played anything other than straight here. The actual skip itself also bores me a bit: it's a woman who points out dangerous things. Admittedly a weird woman, and I was left with a few questions about who made her and how, but still not tremendously exciting to me.

I think in reality the problem I have hear is a combination of these two things: the super-secrecy and meme kill build up a sense of huge danger or power at the very least, and then the actual skip is a bit… anticlimactic. I'd say this one could be easily Euclid and potentially even Safe - no need for all the fussing and top sekrit stuff.

All that said, though, the language and tone is totally on point, and I like the art, and it's an interesting idea, but for now… I think no vote.

Dr Reach 09 Jun 2014 17:02

Stuff stuff stuff words

While the size issue has been adequately put by Scan before, the length of her hair is explicitly stated here:

the external appearance of SCP-179 has been defined as a human female of undetermined ethnic group of between twenty and forty years of age. Its entire bodily surface is covered in or composed of a matte black material. Its hair appears to be composed of this material, measures over 34 km long and is constantly pushed away by solar wind.

How would you put it so it was clearer?

The whole 'we're not telling you everything -> clearance check -> memetic kill agent' shtick seems overdone to me now, and not played anything other than straight here.

I find that this is an archetype necessary for any Thaumiel, perhaps even justified beyond its usual application. It is a crucial item for a large, complex and very beneficial project of the Foundation. But what really scares the Foundation, the thing that makes them strike this thing from every record and amnestizice their own personnel is the fear of an information leak. Notice that they can't contain the skip itself, at all. They "only" enact misinformation measures. Why? Because, if any GoI learns about 179, they will know about extremely dangerous threatening entities coming towards Earth. Some of them will attempt to destroy them. Some of them will attempt to contain them. Some of them will try to gain access to them, acquire them and use them before the Foundation can enact containment.

This skip is pointing at world-ending stuff. I find the Foundation would be rightfully scared of what the wrong people could do with this information.

All that said, though, the language and tone is totally on point, and I like the art, and it's an interesting idea, but for now… I think no vote.

Fair enough, I knew it lays too strongly on its tech-language and it's perhaps too dense… while I didn't consider it from your perspective, it is good to know the language is correct. And thanks again! : )

Litfried 10 Jun 2014 08:19

Regarding the size / hair confusion: I missed any explanation of overall size, so I assumed the entity was to scale with its hair - i.e. about 100km. I think it's really important to point out that the human-shaped bit of the entity is 0.0006% the size of the hair-shaped bit.

Regarding language: I was entirely praising you about that; I don't think it's too strongly techy or dense. I do think that sometimes you use too many hedge words around appearing: for example, its hair 'seems to reflect variable amounts of sunlight'. I don't think you need the 'seems' there.

And on further reading, I've changed my mind, and I think this deserves an upvote. It'll be more whole-hearted if you clear up the size confusion, though!

Jazstar 03 Jun 2014 22:57

SCP-179 will usually address an item or items of interest by pointing at them with an arm and, when more than an item of interest is present, will be able to generate additional limbs anatomically identical to its arms, as needed.

Just wondering if it the second "an item" should be "one item" instead.

Last edited on 03 Jun 2014 23:05 by Jazstar Show more

Dr Reach 03 Jun 2014 23:28

Yup, I think it should be. Duly corrected.

TL333s 03 Jun 2014 23:33

I found myself wondering "Shouldn't this be Keter instead of Thaumiel?" and it took me until almost the end of the article to realize that she wasn't calling down extraplanetary objects or turning them into skips. Having figured it out, I upvoted by the end, but I will say, this is extremely confusing the way it's presented. I'll also say that the format screw and Thaumiel stuff works well, at least.

Dr Reach 04 Jun 2014 18:47

it took me until almost the end of the article to realize that she wasn't calling down extraplanetary objects or turning them into skips.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. The Foundation wasn't certain until the Thaumiel reclass, either. I guess confusion is a big problem with my skips. Thanks for your feedback nonetheless… also happy that format "modding" was successful. : )

TL333s 04 Jun 2014 21:33

This is actually one of the few articles where the format feels perfectly natural, almost expected. I mean, looking at this object and the story behind its containment, why wouldn't the article look like this, really?

Dr Reach 04 Jun 2014 21:40

An argument could be made against the usage of procedurally generated memes, the "Safe Thaumiel" Object Class (why keep the "safe" designation and openly adress it "Thaumiel", for one?) or the "Administrative Warning" gimmick, all of them, I think, a newcomer's ideas… but, well, I liked it, people liked it. It's enough.

phyrestorm 16 Dec 2014 03:07

I have no problem with Thaumiel, but what idiot ever thought this entity was Safe? Even before they ever saw her do anything, she failed the locked box test spectacularly.

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