0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

Summary:

An SCP with a 0 Hume level, leading researchers to suffer an existential crisis.

0 Hume level SCP

PerfectCircle 22 Jul 2020 17:47

I looked into some recent deletions and I didn't see anything like this, and tried searching 0 Hume level and didn't find anything either. Please let me know if it's too similar to another SCP.

Seeking Greenlights: Yes

Page Type: SCP Article

Elevator Pitch: A 0 Hume level SCP of pataphysical nature causes a researcher to question the nature of reality, with unnerving implications for their personal autonomy.

Central Narrative: The Foundation discovers a 0 Hume level SCP in an monastery of an ZenBuddhist offshoot of COTBG. It is inanimate and appears a distortion in reality, confined within a cradle. The ZB branch worships the SCP as the lost heart of the BG.

Dr. Faust (placeholder) is made lead researcher on the investigation. The article is mainly an experiment log containing project updates, and hints at her mental state as she attempts to understand the SCP. She starts optimistic and interested, hoping to use the SCP to help and protect humanity. Her mental state deteoriates, going from impatient and frustrated to eventually desperate and exhausted. She becomes paranoid that the SCP is a trick/joke, that the Foundation/a reality bender/third party is toying with her.

Just before she is removed from the project over concerns for her mental health, she states in a project update that she has managed to formulate the math needed to control the SCP, and proceeds to use the SCP. The article ends in an interview between Faust and another doctor, several months later, talking about what happened to her. She states she had used the SCP to leave reality entirely, but found herself in a similar world to this one (it's implied she left the SCP narrative altogether). She then states she struggled to "find purpose" in this place, and eventually returned to the SCP narrative.

Hook/Attention-Grabber: Never before seen Hume levels.

Additional Notes: The point of this SCP is to present a physical manifestation of nonexistence, a paradox, to someone and task them with figuring it out. It's also to establish further properties for Hume levels, and how Hume levels represent the amount of influence SCP authors want their subjects to possess in their narrative. A 0 Hume level object is thus entirely paradoxical, as it should have no narrative influence, yet it confers the greatest power to it's possessor: the ability to escape the SCP narrative altogether.

The SCP's properties are that it is held physically in place by any surrounding region of ~1 Hume or above. Regions with sub-one Hume pass directly through it and it remains static. It is weightless, indestructible and exhibits no other anomalous properties, but confers unlimited reality bending powers to anyone who holds it and merely thinks about changing reality. Without knowledge of Humian mechanics however, these attempts always end badly with spatial anomalies ripping the user apart. This is to add to the difficulty of investigating this object, further frustrating Faust.

[[/collapsible]]
As a courtesy to our readers on mobile devices, please collapse long posts. Also, please note the Ideas Critique required reading wordcount limit; your post is about 30 words over. Please address this before seeking further feedback. ~Zyn

Last edited on 16 Feb 2021 10:54 by PerfectCircle Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

The Pighead 23 Jul 2020 13:29

Hello, author, Pighead In. Here's a short critique of your idea.

First of all, I wasn't too much a fan of the thing (and maybe it's because I'm not too much into Humes). Then, I re-read and… in fact, it appears that I found the story really interesting and with not big flaws. You seem to know what you want to do and it has a pretty big potential. I especially love the meta twist, who is pretty simple but clever. And in all cases, I'm pretty interested about your story and following that.

This is why I give you a greenlight for this thing! Congrats, author. Now, you will need a second one for using the Drafts Forum. I recommand you to contact other reviewers (especially Butterfly Squad ones) for having new reviews and, maybe, your second greenlight. It's all for me, Pighead Out and good luck.

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

PerfectCircle 23 Jul 2020 15:45

Hello The Pighead,

Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate the greenlight, even though I wasn't actively seeking this. I have sent a request to one of the Butterfly Squad, though their response time was Medium; this shouldn't be a problem, it should give more time to develop the idea further.

If you'd like to be the first, please feel free to suggest a number. I'm not too fussed, I wanted to make it SCP0 at first (for obvious reasons), but I don't think that's possible on this site.

Thanks for your time,
Josh

Note: for anyone wondering where the meta-twist went, check the posts below. I moved it because it went over the 400 word limit for these posts.

Last edited on 23 Jul 2020 16:14 by PerfectCircle Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

PerfectCircle 23 Jul 2020 15:51

Bonus story points:
In case anyone wants to write Humian mechanics or have a character discover them

• Another staff member doesn't give up so easily, actively investigating Humian mechanics.
• If discovered, these mechanics allows characters to use this SCP to escape the narrative and they cannot be written about again. Any influence they have on future content has to be implied.

(Posted as the original was over the 400 word limit)

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

DianaBerry 25 Jul 2020 00:04

[Placeholder, summoned by pm, will critique asap]

 ♥*♡Open Critique♥*♡

Hello there! You have an interesting concept, but I'm a bit concerned about some of the logistics.

First, I'm gonna say that I only know a little about hume levels, but 0 is REALLY low. For a reference on good use of hume levels, check out SCP-3001. The hume level isn't even that low in that article. this is a tale, but it's good informer on hume levels.

While Zero 0 levels isn't impossible, it's something that hasn't been explored much to my knowledge. You even mention that it hasn't been explored before, and being the first for something like this will depend entirely on execution. I'm not gonna be the one to say you can't explore it, as this is a creative writing site afterall.

You seem to know what you want to do with this, but a lot of it seems to be the basic hume level dangerous story. This doesn't really do much for me. My advice is to find a way to distance this from other hume level stories.

Hope I could help! Good luck!

Last edited on 25 Jul 2020 18:42 by DianaBerry Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

PerfectCircle 25 Jul 2020 19:32

Hey,

Thanks for the critique Diana, I will check out those links. Just wanted to elaborate on the story direction. I agree that just having a dangerous SCP would be kind of boring, but I couldn't condense my epic narrative (get used to that word btw, imma bout to use it a lot) into 400 words.

So my narrative for this SCP revolves around the implications of it's nature and the experiments and testing done to it. I'd like to have a meta theme where the lead researcher has an existential crisis trying to figure out whether he's in a narrative or not (with an Ahab-esque "is it me or SCP1 that lifts this arm" characterisation). I want to explore that old stomping ground of plenty of litersture classics: monomania, and have the researcher agonise over whether his thoughts are really his own or whether he's being written that way, including his obsession. And the fact this SCP is impossible to properly use keeps him from getting answers.

I also had an idea to later include another researcher who does manage to use the SCP and escape the narrative. However, as they are a character, they find it impossible to adapt to a reality that isn't a story-driven narrative. As they are outside the narrative however, it is impossible for the story to inform the reader about them, as the SCP narrative cannot dictate our reality.

At this point I was going to introduce a rule along the lines of "an SCP character cannot exist inside and outside the narrative at once." So once the researcher dies outside the narrative, I can write a version of them where they returned to the SCP narrative, explaining they couldn't handle life outside, but are no happier inside the narrative with the knowledge that their every action is predetermined by horror writers. And then, depending on how cruel I feel, a researcher interviewing them points out a logical fallacy in their argument of SCP1 determining everything, as SCP1 hasn't been established as any one thing, meaning that it's effects on reality aren't canon and so the narrative cannot be solely controlled by SCP1.

And then everyone, including myself, take amnestics to cope with the trauma.

Lot of ideas, lot of themes to work out, but I'm hopeful. Hopefully you think these are good and would make for a good SCP tale. I've been developing it a lot but haven't written the tale yet. Can't decide whether to make the tale tbh, I might just stick to the article.

Thanks for your feedback!

Re: 0 Hume level SCP

PerfectCircle 28 Jul 2020 18:08

I've taken a look/listen at 3001 now, I wasn't intending for my SCP to actually be dangerous on it's own due to it's 0 Hume level, but rather it be dangerous when utilized. The 0 Hume level here is supposed to represent a complete divorce from the SCP narrative, meaning it can't be manipulated directly by authors, but can still be interacted with. I intend to detail in the article how testing shows that 0 Hume levels are technically impossible, but somehow this anomaly was created by an inventor that died trying to use it. The focus of the narrative is more on how researchers react to revelations the SCP begins to reveal, and how it affects their mentality, with some focus on how the paranoia of not knowing whether one's thoughts are one's own begins to eat at a person.

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

OCuin 29 Jul 2020 21:24

[Placeholder from PM]

[+] Critique

I'm not gonna get into the logics of what a 0 Hume anomaly would be like or look like because it's not largely relevant nor particularly interesting. Functionally, I see it as a vehicle to let the writer mess around with space and time and that's fine by me.

The SCP's disappearance is due to it's 0 Hume level which, unless it is confined/held, renders it absolutely static. As the Earth is moving and rotating, it disappears from sight as the Earth moves away from it.

This is cool, but it's about the only clear mechanic I feel I can point to and go "I like this" here. What's the actual list of properties this has, and what exactly is it?

A senior researcher with knowledge of SCP1 (S Andrew Swann's proposal) begins to look into the SCP.

This doesn't make sense within the logic of Swann's Proposal - only one member of the 05 council actually has knowledge of SCP-001, so there's not a chance this researcher would know about it.

So, the biggest issue I have here is that the narrative just seems kinda dry. It's very reliant on telling the reader information about the anomaly and Hume levels, and that kind of narrative can quickly become very boring to read because unless there's a strong mystery to hook the reader in, there's very little to actually engage them. In this case, I don't see a strong mystery, nor any particularly compelling character or narrative hooks that would engage me as a reader. I think it would come off far too dry and unengaged.

Additionally, this seems far too reliant on Swann's proposal. Whilst I think some of what it does with that proposal is pretty neat (the escaping the influence bit particularly), it's not really surrounding by enough of its own original material; without Swann's proposal this article couldn't survive at all, and I just don't think that's the strongest way to go about writing a narrative.

My main recommendation to you here would be to come up with a stronger narrative hook or more engaged and fleshed out characters to engage the reader with, rather than relying on Swann's proposal and the anomaly being unique to hook the reader in.

Last edited on 30 Jul 2020 18:16 by OCuin Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

PerfectCircle 30 Jul 2020 22:00

Hi Ocuin,

go raibh maith agat. Your critique has actually pointed out a huge flaw in my story. I don't know if you looked at the above replues to DianaBerry, but I have characters storylines planned out. SCP1 being known only to the 05 really throws a spanner in the works. I'll try to figure something out. I haven't been putting characters or more details here as I thiught that would be in the draft stage.

My original plan was:

Description: The SCP is a distortion in reality created by a now dead independent inventor who created this SCP in order to escape the SCP narrative (justification for this is kind of meta, as in this story, none of the characters act of their own free will as all their choices are written by the author). The SCP is a singularity and shouldn't exist, but does, making it paradoxical in nature and thus practically impossible to reverse engineer. This is important as I want the lack of answers from researching it to strain the sanity of the research staff.

+ show block

Story: When research staff become knowledgable of the the narrative of their reality, the head researcher, Dr. Boyarov, starts an obsessive investigation and details the Laws of Narration, and wants to escape them. He's insistent on escaping as it would represent the safest, easiest method of protecting humanity, simply to escape the SCP universe altogether.

He comes close to understanding how to actually operate it, but as this requires Humian mechanics, which isn't established in universe, it's actually impossible (maybe a lack of knowledge on SCP1 is better, as it could lead to more frustration and desperation on Boyarov's part). However, during this investigation he loses himself in his research and becomes obsessed that he is a puppet of the narrative. Dr. Boyarov was then supposed to request the SCP destroyed as he realises that SCP1 would never establish Humian mechanics, and thus it's impossible to escape the narrative, which depresses Boyarov as he is convinced he has no free will. He quits the foundation and agrees to amnestics (alternatively commits suicide). The Foundation does not destroy this SCP however.

Enter Dr. Faust and Agent Jaeger (placeholder names). Big twist out the way, I intended to have Faust in a relationship with Boyarov, who writes her a farewell letter, stating he cannot take the strain of what he knows/understands. These pair are supposed to come across as entirely clinical, not nearly as absorbed as Boyarov, however Faust does succumb to a similar obsession as her former love during his work. Faust and Jaeger are assigned to the project as they were acquaintances of Boyarov, and Faust agrees to continue investigating the SCP while Jaeger is sent out into the field to try and gather any information on the object from third parties.

During this time, Faust actually manages to derive Humian mechanics despite her growing obsession with the research, and she manages to escape the narrative. He "returns" several months later to the SCP narrative, and an interview log reveals that she did indeed leave, but she confesses she couldn't adapt to live outside. (Returns is in quotes because nothing written in the narrative can be considered canonically true, given that the narrative cannot change our reality). The results of her psych evaluation upon returning showed that she worked on the project in pursuit of closure of her and Boyarov's relationship, which Boyarov ended without even telling her in person, taking the amnestics immediately after writing the letter. In the original story, Jaeger conducts the interview as she is the only one who can seem to get a rise out of Faust: at the end of the interview, she asks if Faust wants to know whether S Andrew Swann's SCP1 is real, and after a short pause, she says no, she would prefer to forget. She is then administered amnestics and Jaeger returns to investigating this SCP.

I also wanted to introduce the BVRF, Boyarov Variable Reality Filter, that filters out all Hume levels below, above or outside of some range, making it somewhat more flexible than SRAs, which removes a differential. I had the idea the 0 Hume level regions also appear to alter the properties of time and space in that region, decreasong spatial proportions while elongating time (something something time dialation, length contraction, some relativity stuff from my old Phys modules). This makes 0 Hume levels incredibly dangerous to surrounding nonzero Hume regions, as it can distort the fabric of spacetime and alter distances outside the region (I wanted to include this so as to make it even more inadvisable to try and recreate the SCP). This thing isn't supposed to be a cognitohazard, but it is supposed to be a 90degree uphill struggle to research and understand, so that only the most obsessive persist in researching it.

This is a lot. Thank you for reading this far. Please let me know what you think, and of the other posts above.

As a courtesy to our readers on mobile devices, please collapse long posts. ~Zyn

Last edited on 01 Aug 2020 07:11 by PerfectCircle Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

OCuin 02 Aug 2020 20:45

So, my main problem is that this feels like it's playing the same narrative arc out twice, as well as a very similar character arc twice. It's repeating itself, and I'm not sure to what end. The world and the Foundation haven't changed particularly by the end of either iteration of the narrative arc, and neither have the characters really, given they are both amnesticised. It feels very static and not largely very interesting. It's also rather reliant on the "obsessive scientist pursuing the Truth" cliche, and it doesn't do much to elevate or otherwise redeem that cliche.

There are a few logical inconsistencies too; how do they know to begin investigating the idea of a narrative without knowledge of Swann's proposal? What does that really have to do with this 0 Hume SCP? The justification for that connection feels flimsy at this point.

The only idea I can really point to here as something I like is the idea of escaping the narrative, but it needs to be paired with a more clear overall narrative arc and a stronger character arc. I would advise cutting either the first or second iteration of your narrative arc here; the repeating itself is the weakest element and really hurts the overall idea. It feels like you've got a beginning, middle, and end, and then another beginning, middle, and end. The purpose of it is difficult to decipher and it doesn't really make a whole pile of sense in terms of telling a satisfying story.

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

PerfectCircle 03 Aug 2020 06:07

Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently still developing character ideas. I take it you didn't get my PM in time, this is the story I previously developed. I've revised the main post already. I'm going to introduce more characters to explore the different sides of this narrative, and try to stay away from "the truth" cliche.

I made it a 0 Hume SCP (originally) to establish how Hume levels determine how much influence entities have over reality AND how much influence authors have over those entities. In addition, 0 Hume level objects shouldn't exist in the SCP reality, but this SCP anomalously does exist, putting it completely outside authors control (all of this is implicit, to avoid reliance on Swann). Outside of Swann's proposal, I intend to keep it capable of conferring this control to other entities regardless of their Hume level, to the point of escaping the narrative. I will still have to reconcile the lack of author control and escaping the narrative with this feedback, with no mention of Swann.

Please see the main post for the revisions, I think I addressed all the points in my changes.

In summary

• Foundation staff investigate anomalous, paradoxical SCP
• SCP has 0 Hume and reality bending capabilities due to it's 0 Hume level (another paradox)
• Foundation staff investigate and establish further properties of Hume levels and narrative mechanics
• Progress eventually stalls, affecting Foundation staff mentally
• One of them escapes only to find they are a character incapable of full autonomy (implicit)
• SCP world seems even bleaker at the conclusion, knowing that the characters can escape but are incapable of executive action.

That's the general gist. The paradoxes represented by this SCP are intended to make it almost impossible to research, to represent the overall theme of paradox and contradiction. You would assume that given all the effort the staff put in, they would see some payoff: but they don't. They escape only to find they can't handle life outside.

Last edited on 03 Aug 2020 17:40 by PerfectCircle Show more

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

PerfectCircle 01 Aug 2020 10:58

Central narrative and additional notes rewritten after taking into account feedback.

Re: 0 Hume level SCP [Seeking Greenlight]

PerfectCircle 16 Feb 2021 09:51

Been a while, but I've developed the plot a bit more. I intend to add a set of interview logs with supplicants of COTBG, which focus on the merging of Zen Buddhism with COTBG, this branch of which has managed to forge machines out of 0 Hume field space using their own variants of Scranton Reality Anchors.

This offshoot of ZB takes a more literal interpretation of Sunyata, mixing it with COTBG doctrine, and considering it part of the solution to reviving its God. It considers all 'flesh', interpreted to mean matter of any kind, to be unclean, and seeks apotheosis through conversion of it's adherents to its own brand of 0 Hume machineform.

Last edited on 16 Feb 2021 15:05 by PerfectCircle Show more