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Seeking Greenlights: no
Page Type: Tale
Genre: Drama/Emotional
Elevator Pitch:
An overly-altruistic woman combusts when her conflict between being nice or not overwhelms her.
Central Narrative:
Cynthia was the only child to a single mother. Her mother told her that everyone carries a little flame in their heart that they use to bring light and warmth to others whose flames are burning less brightly. She was told to be kind to others even if they are mean, because those are the people whose little lights are close to going out and need the most love. She observed her mother overwork herself to provide for her and her aunt. Despite hardships, her mother never complained and just stayed silent. The feeling of injustice towards society starts blooming in little Cynthia; she hates that the kind are always used and taken for granted.
Presently, her mother is ill because of overwork and Cynthia is forced to go out for work. Cynthia never forgot her mother’s words, providing for her family, donating to charity, and showing kindness to those she meets. On a particularly bad day, several events trigger her to start burning. The credit for a project she had worked on alone was taken by a coworker she trusted and she was fired for trying to stand up for herself. On the way to the hospital, she overheard the conversation of the hosts of the charity she donates to discussing how to use the money for themselves. Cynthia finally visited her mother, and seeing the pitiful state her mother was in, was reminded of the reason why her mother was bedridden: her aunt that had used her.
She then burst into flames, and as these flames manifested on her, the people who used her or her mother also burnt. The fuel of this fire is her conflict between whether she should listen to her mother's words about being kind or should she be selfish and preserve herself for once.
Cynthia's ill mother chased after her from the hospital and tells her a story about the past while letting the burning Cynthia lay on her. Soon, the flames die down as Cynthia listens to her mother’s words and she learns to compromise between self-destructive altruism and healthy kindness.
Hook: Conflict between two metaphorical halves of a person causing spontaneous human combustion.
Additional notes: N/A
General note, please make sure that your concept summary follows the wordcount limit. Currently it's about 45 words over the maximum in the required reading.
Oops, alright, meant to strikethrough everything for a while. Thanks for notifying me.
You're now over 50 words over the maximum.
Apart from the formatting, I've reduced it to 398 words now.
Edit: Shortened to below 400
[Placeholder from PM]
I'm on board with most of this concept. The subtext is decent, and I like the possibilities it presents. Exploring a single character primarily is a good choice, and helps focus the idea.
I have a few issues.
Unable to handle this imbalance in feelings, she combusted into blue flames, and triggered some sort of biological programming in everybody when she was set on fire.
Why does this trigger this in everyone else? I don't really see why one would affect the other and the link between them seems tenuous. This would be stronger, in my opinion, if it was either a thing that started happening consistently amongst everyone at a certain point or something that was more clearly deliberately caused by a person. Just having it happen to one person, and that causing it to happen to everyone feels contrived to me.
They change it so that society becomes more selfish, and increasingly depraved so that people won't die to this anomalous fire.
This is arguably a more personal issue, but I'll raise it anyway. This doesn't seem very realistic to me. It's attacking the problem at the stem rather than the roots and I don't think an organisation as well-funded and staffed as the Foundation would resort to such a method. It feels silly to have them attempt to make society more selfish. I'm also not a fan of the subtextual implications of this, that society isn't selfish and takes care of people, rather than the reality that it ignores the downtrodden and different.
At the end, the idea of the Foundation itself burns, as it is the ultimate symbol of self-sacrifice so that others can live happy lives.
This just feels overly sentimental and fawning for an organisation that regularly does bad things. Arguably, yes, it's in the service of the greater good. But I'm just not a fan of the moral message that the Foundation is the greatest symbol of human self-sacrifice, and by extension, moral quality to a degree. It's twee and feels ignorant of what the Foundation actually is. I'm not one to overly bash them, but similarly, I don't think it's good to be so praising of them.
Thank you for your crit, OCuin! Glad to always have a critter to rely on when in need.
I have read through your crit and have addressed most, if not all of your crit, will be answering here for additional clarity.
Why does this trigger this in everyone else?
At first, it was some sort of anomalous phenomenon that I believed did not have to be linked, seeing as to many people agree that this isn't needed, I shall not include this in.
It feels silly to have them attempt to make society more selfish. I'm also not a fan of the subtextual implications of this, that society isn't selfish and takes care of people, rather than the reality that it ignores the downtrodden and different.
Considering that this may really affect the article negatively, instead of a large scale operation, I've narrowed the scope to only the burning woman.
This just feels overly sentimental and fawning for an organisation that regularly does bad things.
Agreed. Didn't know how to end it off, I've thought up of a new ending that may be a much more reasonable conclusion that doesn't throw the world into a K-class apocalypse.
Noting PM request to take a second look.
In the end, this woman expires in containment, as she finally accepts that she can be who she wants to be, that she doesn't have to be weighed down by expectations of others and she can be kind in her own way while loving herself. An emotional catharsis of someone who could not compromise between the two before.
I'm gonna second Zyn's point on this. It's twee, cheesy, and feels hamfisted subtextually. The meaning this idea telegraphs is essentially, "don't neglect yourself, you'll burn out", except then this ending runs in and says "wait no if you care about yourself you'll burn out as well." There's some interesting ideas present in this text, but the messaging is unfocused as it is. Focusing on character helps, but the story still does not present as coherent a messaging as is necessary, in my opinion.
I overall still think this idea shows promise, however the messaging needs a degree of refining and focus before I would place my full faith in this. This largely falls on the back of the ending, but if you can't stick the landing, the whole article will struggle.
The woman doesn't have to die, I don't know why I was so stuck to the idea that she had to end in containment!
Anyways, now I have a concern after changing my ending. The flames die down, she loves herself and chooses to become a nurse in the Foundation (she lacks qualifications to be a counsellor or a researcher).
Is it satisfying enough? Is it logical that the Foundation would allow her to keep on working even after being neutralised? Because essentially the love yourself part is the message itself and I guess a happy ending wouldn't be as cheesy? I mean the conclusion of the story is predictable and I guess readers can see it coming, but it's more of a psyche-exploration piece so…
Kinda unsure if this is the right way to go? I don't need it to have a huge impact, but I just want it to be a satisfying end to readers.
[Placeholder from PM]
Noting PM request to take a second look.
I'm not much of a fan of this version. It feels like this character is just too much of a good person to feel realistic, and the hardship they go through doesn't seem to have much payoff. They exist as one of two traits: morally good, and suffering. That's just not the level of depth necessary for a character-focused piece.
The metaphor here is also increasingly fuzzy, in my opinion. Although it's an improvement to not have it manifest on others, there are still elements that make it feel confused.
As the flames manifested on her, the charity hosts and her colleagues and her aunt, all the people that had used her mother or her got serious burns (not death).
This implies that Cynthia's behaviour significantly harms those around her who are often those who mistreat her. It confuses the central message and detracts from the focus on her character, in my opinion. Whilst this would be alright if it was focused on, for example, how it might hurt her friends or close family, in this case it is specifically those who have hurt her. In reality, this just isn't the case and it hurts the metaphor a lot, in my opinion.
I've also just increasingly felt this is too on the nose. I don't this would be as much of an issue if it were still an SCP article - I think in general metaphors that are less subtle and more overt can be a fun thing in that format - but as a tale, I think this would easily come across as hamfisted and over the top, especially when considering the ending.
The ending is just too… easy. She runs away from the hospital, and during the run, she solves all her problems? Or at least the ones present in the tale? I just don't find it believable, and it feels far too forced and unnatural. As a conclusion, it also feels tonally dissonant with the rest of the story. As I mentioned above, this character feels very centred around how she is 1) good and 2) suffering. This ending would be alright if it were connected to a more considered character, but as it is, this character and this ending don't match well in my head. There's no progression or character arc, it's just a series of events force a significant change in her psyche, and that change feels unearned and jarring - in part because the character that is set up doesn't feel like she would reach this point naturally over the course of this story.
I'm not really sure what else to say, and I don't think I really have much in the way of useful recommendations. You are, of course, under no obligation to listen to my advice, and I imagine this, as it is, may still have a good chance on the mainsite. I just felt it necessary to be honest with how I felt about it.
Thank you for the help OCuin! I'll be taking in some of the crit, such as the catharsis being too easy and stuff, but the concept will largely stay the same.
The flames of kindness that her mother described isn't the cause of the flames manifesting on Cynthia, it's just something her mother told her and what she remembered as she burst into flames. The actual fuel is her conflict between contrasting emotions of hating and loving.
P.S: I will not be contacting you for to take a look at the draft as you seem to be on the fence about it, but I hope it will be a good contribution to the wiki. Have a nice day!
Brought here by PM. Let's take a look:
I think you have a very interesting and worthwhile theme of self-destructive obligation toward others. But I think that the best avenue to explore this theme is to narrow your scope. Keep the attention on people as individuals, not people as an abstract. The Foundation doesn't have to play a role in an SCP article. Oftentimes the story is more satisfying and focused when the Foundation keeps out of it as much as possible. Don't feel compelled to make a story about the Foundation itself; the SCP article is just a framing device for a narrative of your own.
This kind of article is a character-driven piece. Contemplate different kinds of self-neglect (physical, mental, emotional, etc.) and consider how these have an effect not only on a person but also on their actions in the world around them. There may be additional merit in presenting strategies for self-care and boundary-setting that help a character prevent anomalous burn-out.
Best of luck.
Thank you for replying to my PM really quickly, I appreciate the effort rioludoodle.
I have read through your crit and have addressed most, if not all of your crit, will be answering here for additional clarity.
I think you have a very interesting and worthwhile theme of self-destructive obligation toward others. But I think that the best avenue to explore this theme is to narrow your scope.
I've narrowed it down to the story of the mental state of the woman, instead of an overarching theme that I most likely can't pull off.
Don't feel compelled to make a story about the Foundation itself; the SCP article is just a framing device for a narrative of your own.
Noted, considered and implemented.
Contemplate different kinds of self-neglect (physical, mental, emotional, etc.)
I've done this type of mental degradation thing before in a tale of mine, and I have confidence I can pull it off. Thanks for steering me in this way instead of making me go with the whole apocalypse route.
Since you're using the SCP article format, it may be difficult to touch on the "little flame" childhood proverb internalized by the burning woman without coming across as somewhat contrived. The phrase is just a bit too purple-prose. If you want to include it verbatim, I think your best bet is an addendum of notes from a therapy session or interview.
Otherwise, I find the narrative and characters highly compelling! It hits the dark emotional beats with a lot of strength. The prospect of a journey to healing/balance is very cathartic in contrast. Great work cleaning up the story.
I look forward to seeing this as a full draft. Best of luck, author!
Hello there
Interesting SCP you've got here
Would be a shame if someone…
Critiqued it…
Y'know, this concept really takes "kill them with Kindness" to a whole new level".
You know, this concept really, really, REALLY has me hooked. I absolutely adore the idea. Such a situation would, like you said, cause quite a huge shift in society's views towards oneself and others, and it really push more people to focus on self-preservation. I want to see how the world would deal with such a phenomenon. Are couples forced to break up? Are family units torn apart? Would everyone be raised on a foundation of hate and loathsomeness instead of kindness and compassion? Would crime become legal? I honestly really want to see how far the ruthlessness goes. It's like "The Purge," but on a whole new level.
And I completely see where you're coming from with the dillemma faced by the Foundation, and how they are also affected by the phenomenon. Rarely do we see such a side to the Foundation: the kind and caring side of the Foundation. And I'm completly on board with seeing them face this ethical dillemma. It's times like this that I wish I could upvote posts, because this Concept is nothing short of wonderful. I can't wait to see it!
Contacted through PM. Again, thank you for the motivation, Dr Sage Evergreen, will not disappoint.
As for your questions about the story itself, the idea had changed drastically already, and it won't be about a purge anymore. Although, I will still be maintaining the descriptive about the deterioration of the anomaly's mind.
(Insert something funny about critiques here)
Overall, I do enjoy the idea centred around themes of self destructive kindness and unrequited love. It was said in a few other critiques but I think you'd truly benefit from making this far more narrow in scope than a Foundation wide sacrifice.
Let's do a more in depth crit:
Foundation investigated the source of this global combustion phenomenon. They found out that people who have high levels of empathy to people they love while neglecting themselves fell victim to this human combustion event.
This part seems fine to me, a simple investigation into the phenomenon but be sure the Foundation has found a correlation between the two when mentioning it.
Investigating the source of this, Foundation found out that the cause of this was a young woman who had self-immolated after her negligence towards self reached a maximum while her love towards others were at the maximum too.
This is dark and emotional to be sure, but burning yourself alive is a hell of a way to kill yourself. Make sure her reasoning behind it is sound and doesn't come off as a goofy shock value of dousing herself in gasoline and lighting herself on fire. Touch on her emotional struggles and severe mental damage that led her to just burn everything away (such as starting a house fire and just going to bed).
Unable to handle this imbalance in feelings, she combusted into blue flames, and triggered some sort of biological programming in everybody when she was set on fire. Thus, humans with self-destructive kindness became victims of this flame.
This is incredibly wide reaching and ambitious for a simple human centred anomaly and could take away from what would be better suited as a character driven piece. I feel like if you focus more on the girl and have her emotional state cause wide reaching empathical effects that cause others who are kind yet self destructive tip over the edge where they combust to feed her flame, it would make something that starts as a widespread global thing that happened one day, to having everything connected back to this one girl.
In a sense, her overwhelming kindness and neglect of self would cause others like her to suffer. A cruel loop shes stuck in.
They find out that she is obligated to help others, while neglecting herself, and the story is an account of her feelings and perception of the people around her that place expectations on her.
This is pretty on the mark for someone with these sorts of mental issues, so no argument there.
This causes her to influence the world around her anomalously, as she gets bummed out by her empathy, causing a burnout in caring for others. Yet, she can't die, she still keeps burning. She can never truly get rid of her inherent kindness, and the fuel for this blue flame will never run out.
Immortality is the way to go of course, the struggle between a person who wants to stop caring but cant is incredibly deep and should be explored to its fullest.
This is where the story breaks down for me. Its unnecessarily wide scope to the point where it loses the intimacy of a character driven piece. The Foundation would likely opt to try forms of mental coaching, therapy, medication and similar methods to attempt to stop her imbalanced feelings so her anomalous traits don't take hold and activate.
As for others in the world affected by the anomaly and the world at large, you could always have the Foundation utilise their influence to subtly influence the world to becoming a crueler place without the need for a massive sacrifice on their part. The Foundation may make sacrifices, but its cold, cruel, and brutal at times for a 'greater good'. They should be the villain in this story, if only a large, cold, faceless one.
At the end, the idea of the Foundation itself burns, as it is the ultimate symbol of self-sacrifice so that others can live happy lives.
This I dont exactly agree with. Theyre not here so people can be happy, there here to preserve normalcy and humanity, often at the cost of others rather than themselves. They are powerful, manipulative, dangerous and uncaring. This is why I think you should focus on a character piece instead of a Foundation wide sacrifice.
And that's my crit! In short, focus on this poor girl that has caused immense suffering in the world just because she cares so much about others and not herself. Focus on her mental health, her spiral, the spiral of others and how the Foundation had to reduce humanity's greater need for selfless love to prevent its destruction.
Hope this helped! :)
Thanks for responding to our crit trade in the IRC Chat so quickly, Iszth. Really appreciate the effort that you put in to make me rethink the idea properly.
I have read through your crit and have addressed most, if not all of your crit, will be answering here for additional clarity.
Make sure her reasoning behind it is sound and doesn't come off as a goofy shock value of dousing herself in gasoline and lighting herself on fire. Touch on her emotional struggles and severe mental damage that led her to just burn everything away (such as starting a house fire and just going to bed).
I wouldn't make it too implausible. It's more like this woman wants to die out in a blaze of glory, like Mrs Blake's neighbour from F451.
This is where the story breaks down for me. Its unnecessarily wide scope to the point where it loses the intimacy of a character driven piece.
I've seen many other critters mention it, and thus I have considered and changed the story so now that the Foundation doesn't play too much of a part in the story; it will centre mainly around the woman herself.
The Foundation would likely opt to try forms of mental coaching, therapy, medication and similar methods to attempt to stop her imbalanced feelings so her anomalous traits don't take hold and activate.
Noted, considered and implemented.
This I dont exactly agree with. Theyre not here so people can be happy, there here to preserve normalcy and humanity, often at the cost of others rather than themselves.
Both you and OCuin mentioned that the Foundation isn't too beneveolent or kind, so I have reformatted my idea after thinking about it. I agree that the Foundation is more cruel than not, but I will still be preserving the fact that the woman sees the Foundation as a place that had helped her die peacefully.
Got a PM about this. I'll be honest… I don't like this. My main issue with this is that it all seems rather contrived, especially since I as a reader don't understand why the "flames of kindness" manifest the way they do at all. It seems to imply that kindness itself is inherently harmful, which is definitely not the case.
[…] reported dead from undergoing spontaneous combustion, Foundation found out that the cause of this was a young woman who had self-immolated
Given that the human body is 60% water, "spontaneous combustion" isn't really a thing that would happen just from exposure to fire. The person in question would likely need to have all sorts of other circumstances as well, like… being doused in fuel or wearing lots of easily burnable clothes.
after her negligence towards self reached a maximum while her love towards others were at the maximum too. Unable to handle this imbalance in feelings, she combusted into blue flames, a metaphor for the emotions of a jaded person being burnt out due to expectations of society.
Maybe it's the optimist in me, but if this person had "maximum love" for other people and "maximum negligence" for herself, does that mean that she just didn't have anyone who cared about her too? Who are these people that she loves and why did none of them even notice that she was running herself ragged? Why did she herself not know better? I'm also unsure why the flames are blue and how that's meant to express the "metaphor for the emotions of a jaded person being burnt out". Also, if she's apparently so jaded, why didn't she start taking breaks from being so loving earlier?
They find out that she is obligated to help others, while neglecting herself,
How is she obligated in this way? Is it an anomalous compulsion? A form of mental illness? Something else entirely?
Yet, she can't die, she still keeps burning. She can never truly get rid of her inherent kindness, and the fuel for this blue flame will never run out.
My question is why though. Why do these flames manifest at all? Why can't she realize that kindness involves taking care of oneself? Why does the flame never run out?
The Foundation, seeing as to how this kindness is the only thing that is keeping her alive,
How would the Foundation come to this conclusion? I personally wouldn't have assumed that the "kindness" is keeping this person alive. Seems more like the complete opposite, unless the fire also means she can't eat or sleep or do normal human things (in which case, again, why? Why is she apparently punished in this way?).
and that she won't ever die since it is a renewing sort of fuel for this flame,
Again, I'm not sure how the Foundation would come to the conclusion that the fire grants a form of immortality. It seems like a leap in logic the Foundation wouldn't have an explanation for.
tries to do therapy on her so that source of sadness can be extinguished and the anomaly neutralised.
I'm admittedly surprised they didn't just sedate her and provide some antidepressents as well. Cognitive behavioral therapy and other talking-based counseling can take a long, long time to have any effect, and it's not always successful.
Thanking the Foundation for helping her (even if it was to fulfill their own goal), this woman expires in containment, as she finally accepts that she can be who she wants to be, that she doesn't have to be weighed down by expectations of others and her flame eventually dies.
This just feels cheesy and overdramatic for me. Also, the Foundation's goal isn't to neutralize anomalies, its foremost focus is to both prevent humanity from finding out anomalies exist and to protect the average person from the anomalous. It also seems like a hamfisted downer ending to have this person be punished for their selflessness, eventually learn to take care of themselves, and then immediately die.
As such… this is likely not my kind of piece. I have trouble taking the primary premise seriously because it feels almost tailor-made to be as sad and emotional as possible, at the sacrifice of a believable plot and contextually sound anomaly. Granted, a lot of readers aren't as nitpicky about plot points as I am. There's no need to write for my taste specifically; if it seems like a lot of other reviewers like this fine as presented, go with their responses and don't feel obligated to make extreme edits just because of my critique.
Thanks a lot for your crit Zyn! Just needed you to look at the idea once so I could weed out the useless stuff. I'm kinda happy to see that most of the questions come from me not explaining the idea enough, and not because it has too many plotholes.
Given that the human body is 60% water, "spontaneous combustion" isn't really a thing that would happen just from exposure to fire.
No, they didn't touch the woman to be set on fire, but instead these anomalous flames manifested and killed them after the woman had started burning. These affected individuals were ones that were close to her but had only used her.
does that mean that she just didn't have anyone who cared about her too
Nope. This idea started off with myself, so I can answer this fairly well here. This means that she doesn't know that others care about her, that it's her attitude that makes it seem like she's always fine. The woman is always helping others, but she doesn't know what to do with her own life. Not wanting to burden others, she adorns an aloof personality, pushing people away at her own expense because she thinks she shouldn't bother others.
Who are these people that she loves and why did none of them even notice that she was running herself ragged?
Friends, families and colleagues. Second part answered above.
I'm also unsure why the flames are blue
I had a little image that the intensity of flames could correlate to intensity of emotions; this woman is incredibly conflicted and the colour of the flames represent that. What is conflicting her is the idea that she can't give up being overly-altruistic, yet realises she needs to take care of herself. One part, which is her inherent kindness, is combating with the other part that wants to preserve herself. Like, really intense inability to compromise care for self and others.
Also, if she's apparently so jaded, why didn't she start taking breaks from being so loving earlier?
I realised I didn't include in the idea that this is her nature. She's literally unable to, as my answer above shows.
How is she obligated in this way? Is it an anomalous compulsion? A form of mental illness? Something else entirely?
It's who she is. I guess you can call it a mental illness where neglecting oneself while caring too much about opinions and life of others? Absolutely not anomalous compulsion, she's jsut hardwired that way since birth.
How would the Foundation come to this conclusion?
This is kind of hard to answer, because although I would just like to say interviews because honestly the anomaly itself (the burning woman) is not that hostile and the flames don't just spread everywhere; they act just like normal fire when they catch on to something else. On the other hand, it's an unsatisfying answer, but that's all I have.
I personally wouldn't have assumed that the "kindness" is keeping this person alive. Seems more like the complete opposite,
She would know. It's the dual natures in her emotion landscape conflicting with each other. One, the really strong will to help others and love others that she was born with and the other, the sense of self-preservation that has been coded in all humans. These flames represent her kindness burning out at first, because she thinks that no one should deserve her kindness anymore. She's just become too empty to want to help others. In the end, she reaches a compromise. As the flames of kindness burn bright and blue once more, a small, green fire at the place of her own heart materialises. This signifies that she finally understands the importance of self-preservation while learning to still be kind.
I changed it after your feedback.
I'm admittedly surprised they didn't just sedate her and provide some antidepressents as well.
This, I'm unsure how to go along with. I don't necessarily need therapy to work on her, but I suppose the interviews with someone that actually seemed to care about her, would cause a therapeutic effect for the burning woman? I'll figure it out as I go along as this seems to be an easily-solved issue if I look at the direction my story is going.
This just feels cheesy and overdramatic for me.
Same. I'm just gonna delete this because it feels so bad as an ending. She doesn't have to thank them, she can go out in her own way.
Thanks for taking a look! Hope I answered some queries you might have had :D
Sorry, but most of this just makes the premise even more convoluted and nonsensical. I feel like to address this, you'll need a more coherent overarching narrative and less randomly included fluff detail.
First off—the flames. If they randomly manifested on other people, it seems odd that the Foundation would identify the woman as the source, and not another victim who just happened to have different circumstances. The fact that the flames kill the other people and not the woman is also questionable, it seems like pretty disproportionate retribution and kind of overdramatic since it doesn't help the woman or fix the behavior of the victims.
The bit about the flames being blue because of "intensity of emotions" seems kind of silly—personally I feel like there's no need for that. Just make them normal flames, since the focus is on the lady here, not the flames, I presume. The green fire bit, as such, just seems like something out of a cheesy anime (and also doesn't seem to work well with the "blue because of intensity!" bit because green flames are typically chemical-based. Is that meant to imply her heart has chemicals?) Again, I feel like you're better off not bothering with the colors since they don't really contribute anything to the narrative beyond kind of in-your-face obligatory color-coding.
Next, the woman's relationship with others. It seems rather all over the place and more complicated than necessary. You state, "These affected individuals were ones that were close to her but had only used her" and "she doesn't know that others care about her, that it's her attitude that makes it seem like she's always fine". So did the people who care about her never warn her against the people who just used her? Also, the "Not wanting to burden others, she adorns an aloof personality, pushing people away at her own expense because she thinks she shouldn't bother others." bit seems to contradict the later statement that she's "neglecting oneself while caring too much about opinions and life of others". Does she not care if people are upset or suspicious that she's pushing them away?
The character's circumstances and oddly specific behaviors make her seem like a cardboard cut out of a character meant to tell a sad story, not someone that the audience will be able to readily believe as a human being. This is especially the case since there's no context for the behavior beyond:
It's who she is. […] Absolutely not anomalous compulsion, she's jsut hardwired that way since birth. […] I realised I didn't include in the idea that this is her nature. She's literally unable to, as my answer above shows.
As far as I know, people aren't actually like this. Altruism isn't something that is immediately present upon birth. While genetics plays a role in likeliness to develop certain patterns of altruism, expression of altruism tends to start at 15 months or so, and is inhibited by childhood development elements like maltreatment. The psychology stuff aside, "she's just like that"/"she's just unable to do this because she just is" is a pretty lazy writing approach.
Similarly, the whole bit about the character and her awareness of her circumstances:
She would know.
is also lazy writing. The whole bit about "dual natures" and "kindness burning out at first" is pretty unapproachable for me as a reader because it seems like such a leap of logic, and it seems odd to me that this character is just immediately able to know why all this is happening.
I will note that your statement "This idea started off with myself" makes me as a reader hesitant. While it's great to draw inspiration from personal experiences, an author modeling an SCP entity after oneself can be questionable idea since you and this entity are inherently not the same, and you as the author need to be willing to make major changes as necessary to tell a good story, even if that means changing this so it doesn't really reference you as much. Also, it can be difficult to deal with negative feedback regarding the character since the author may take some of the comments personally since they feel inherently represented by said character. If you really want to progress with this, make sure that you can keep yourself distinct from the character during the editing stage.
All that aside… my questions from earlier have not been answered in a satisfactory manner.
Why is the woman like this?
Why do these flames manifest the way they do?
My suggestions to fix this:
- give the woman more of a backstory and reason for her behavior beyond "she just is this way" to better explain why "she literally can't function well enough to care for herself because she doesn't know how"
- get rid of the "flames representing kindness" bit. The current portrayal of the metaphor is too complicated and confusing to merit keeping. You can keep the flames, but don't try and force the comparisons to kindness since what's happening here is more a weird mix of harmful self-imposed altruism and personal isolation and not actual kindness.
- have there be a more significant incident that results in the initial manifestation of the flames besides "she got really sad and literally burnt out"
Here's how I personally would frame it:
This lady grew up in a single-parent household as a child. Her [parent of choice] told her that everyone carried a little flame in their heart that they use to bring light and warmth to others whose flames might be burning a little low. As such, it's important to be kind to others even if they are mean, because those are the people whose little lights are close to going out and need support the most. The lady goes on in life to engage in all sorts of charitable endeavors, but feels conflicted because it seems like there's always someone else out there who could use help. She sees her [parent of choice] in the people she interacts with and wishes that she could have done more as a child to help their household overall. Those she cares about worry about her and support her but that just makes her more determined to help more people because she's so lucky to have that support and so many other people out there don't have support.
She gradually gets disillusioned through her charity work because lots of people who are comfortably off and have plenty of extra time and resources just don't bother getting involved. Eventually she participates in a charity event that turns out to be a massive scam, and that's where the flames manifest. The people who ran the scam charity get burned really badly, and those who survive are able to give a short testimony of recent accounts that the Foundation uses to track the woman down. She's been keeping to herself because she's covered in flames and all. The Foundation brings her into containment, and initially offers her a fire blanket because she's so adamant on keeping the flames burning because "my [parent of choice] told me I need to take care of my little light" or other such babblings. Time passes, and she comes to terms with what's happened to her. She returns the blanket and asks for someone to talk to. Not therapy, not counseling yet, just someone to listen to what she's got bottled up for so long.
From there you can decide how to end it. I myself would have a bittersweet, but hopeful ending. Something like the Foundation finds the lady's parent and they live together in containment while they figure out the future [if you want, you can mention that the parent has some sort of innate magic or anomaly that is the reason for the flames. Not required, but it can be subtly implied if anyone is hungry for a more direct explanation]. It seems like you really want this character to die though? Or at least come close to it? Which I personally don't agree with since I've never been a fan of the "character has a tough life! Learns some things! And immediately dies and can't enjoy their newfound peace while still alive! Because reasons!"
This sort of premise addresses pretty much all the loose ends I can think of.
All in all—I don't particularly like the idea as it is currently presented. But it's not unworkable. It's up to you how you want to proceed.
Noting here that there's a lot of information in this thread and I've not read all of it
I'm really conflicted about this; there's definitely an interesting emotional arc here but it feels…like it's too much designed to make us feel a certain way: I think it really needs a stronger narrative arc to help carry this; and at the moment that feels…a little lacking?
Specifically: there's not really any conflict here? It seems like the Foundation just kinda shrugs and leaves her alone until she gets better, without any kinda pressure for her to improve or anything? She just, decides to do it while she's within containment alone with there not really being any impetuous for the change, or any kinda, person to bounce her feelings off.
Honestly it kinda feels like that's the only real thing this is missing, to me: a reason for the events to happen.
Thank you for the crit, cybersqyd!
Yeah, it lost that threat factor when I zoomed into her, and I realise the Foundation has no real reason to care about her. Will be reworking the idea.
The change so the focus of the narrative is heavily on her backstory feels like a big, kinda unnecessary step back here: like, the core narrative previously was generally good and like, pretty much there, it just needed some foundation involvement in her growth to really drive the story forward. By making it all be backstory, it feels, perhaps like you've kinda, made it hard to tell a convincing story here?
That said: the focus here feels like it could actually be a really nice tale? Like if this was a tale, I'd greenlight it immediately: the problem with this as a scp for me is that all the stuff happened in the past, so you're likely looking at a relatively dry retelling of it without much uncertainty cos I figure she's gotta have changed and stuff and we know about the fire before you can tell the story?
Changed to tale and fixed a little bit; not too many conceptual differences.
Yeah, alright, I think this would probably work alright as a tale as long as you nail the emotional beats, and really manage to make the journey interesting; so I'm gonna greenlight you.
Hewwo! I just did a little cleaning, and minor editing. I'm sorry in advance.
This lady, Cynthia, had grown up in a single-parent household as the only child. Her mother told her that everyone carries a little flame in their heart that they use to bring light and warmth to others whose flames are burning less brightly. She was told always to be kind to others even if they are mean, because those are the people whose little lights are close to going out, and need the most help.
She observed her mother overwork herself to provide for her and her aunt (who leeched off her mother for money). Despite the hardships, her mother did not complain and just kept quiet. The feeling of injustice towards society starts blooming in little Cynthia; she hates that the kind are always used and taken for granted.
Fast forward to the present, her mother is ill because of being overworked, and Cynthia is forced to go to work [Where does she work? Is it a job?]. She is kind to everyone at work and regularly donates to charity and provides for her mother to the best of her ability. On a particularly bad day, several events trigger her to start burning.
At work, the credit for a project she had worked on alone, was taken by a coworker she trusted and she was fired for trying to stand up for herself.
On the way to the hospital, she overheard the conversation of the hosts of the charity she usually donated to discussing how to use the money for themselves. Cynthia finally visited her mother, and seeing the pitiful state her mother was in, was reminded of the reason why her mother was bedridden: her aunt that [I took out "had".] used her mother.
This has been edited to be easier on the reader's eyes. I also added some other edits, in bold. My comments are in brackets.
I'm using a memory of a punk show in San Diego for my scip. While I'm editing it, I'm mentally pulling myself back. Because it isn't the punk show I was at, I'm not Marla, I'm Joshua.
Anyway, wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. Haha.
Thanks for cleaning it up! Appreciate it.
Alrighty - let's get things rolling here. I will be porting over my advice from IRC, as well as some stuff that I thought about.
Personally, while I think that the backstory is decent and you have a pretty good flow with it, I am worried about the whole thing becoming rather melodramatic, especially since what we have now is just the backstory or the background. Just a wall of monologuing and crying (and monologuing again) wouldn't cut it, at least for me, since no one really gets character development from just thinking about stuff.
What I suggest is that you intersperse your story with what is happening in the present, including some action-filled scenes here and there to not bore the reader. Basically, you have the backstory now, but we need the real-time events that would play around with said backstory. This would make your character more dynamic, and there is a lot more context that the reader can fish out from the surroundings.
Before I greenlight this, I would like to see a flow of what I suggested mixed with your plan to use monologues and flashbacks.
The pen is the killer of fear.
It's really hard to tell you how I'm going to pull off the part where she runs away and thinks about all the stuff about the past, but the general outline is that this fire is something like the rebirth of the phoneix (burning of oneself and being reborn) while old memories flood back to her
As you can see it's very abstract and the best I can tell you is that I simply can't explain but I can only tell you I believe I am able to pull this self doubt and emotional monologue pretty well, as I have done in my first tale, L'appel du Vide and I hope to capture the state of disarray her mind is in and the detail of catharsis again in this tale.
Thanks a lot for critting, I'm terribly sorry I can't answer your crit as this part solely lies on the execution itself.
Summoned via PM.
Hi there forbiddenquest. Thanks for your patience! Let’s take a look at what you have.
Cynthia grew up in a single-parent household as the only child. Her mother told her that everyone carries a little flame in their heart that they use to bring light and warmth to others whose flames are burning less brightly.
So I think this first sentence perfectly encapsulates the key mechanic of your Tale: there’s a literal fire inside that we can spread to others through acts of kindness, correct?
On a particularly bad day, several events trigger her to start burning.
Sad at the world, she burst into flames
all the people that had used her mother or her got serious burns (not death).
The problem comes in the middle when the role / symbolism of the fire changes to being destructive. I think this development confused a few other reviewers as well, and my advice would be to stick to the rules of the base concept. If those rules aren’t fully fleshed out, then they need to be.
For example:
She observed her mother overwork herself to provide for her and her aunt (who leeched off her mother for money).
How do the flames work in this instance? Does Cynthia literally see flames being transferred (“leeched”) off her mother to her aunt? Wouldn’t her aunt then become a much kinder person, as per your definition in the previous line: “because those are the people whose little lights are close to going out and need the most love.”
Despite hardships, her mother never complained and just stayed silent.
The idea that someone’s fire can be eventually extinguished because they’ve basically given it all away is an intriguing one, for sure. But that makes the ending all the more confusing: if the mother is the one calming Cynthia down, it means the mother is still giving away her fire to Cynthia, meaning it will kill her?
“The lights of others aren’t shining brightly, I need to keep mine bright so I can share with them.”
How exactly does one keep their flame burning bright? Right now, it appears to be fuelled by anger and resentment, not kindness and love.
It’s all a little confusing, tbh. I feel you need to simplify the mechanics of how the effect works, and then stick with it for the rest of the narrative. For example, you could have an ending instead where Cynthia realises the error of her ways and shows kindness to her mother, thereby saving her flame and her life. You could have Cynthia kill her Aunt not by burning her to death but by somehow “extinguishing” what’s left of her flames.
Overall, the concept has potential but I think needs some clarity in terms of function. If you decide to revise this, do drop me another PM and I’ll look at it when I can. All the best!
Hello, caspian2 ! Been busy with IRL stuff and was afflicted with writer's ennui for a while so I didn't manage to see your comment till now!
So I think this first sentence perfectly encapsulates the key mechanic of your Tale: there’s a literal fire inside that we can spread to others through acts of kindness, correct?
Nope, it doesn't. Her mother told her that there are little flames in everybody's heart; but that's it. It's a story her mother recounted and it's something like a foreshadowing of what is to happen.
The problem comes in the middle when the role / symbolism of the fire changes to being destructive.
Yeah, the symbolism changes, but this is because of Cynthia herself. The fuel of this fire is Cynthia's conflict between deciding whether she should be kind1 or not being kind, because she hates that kind people get used.
How exactly does one keep their flame burning bright? Right now, it appears to be fuelled by anger and resentment, not kindness and love.
Yeah, it's fuelled by a form of resentment2 and the only reason she says "The lights of others aren’t shining brightly, I need to keep mine bright so I can share with them." is because she's gone a little cuckoo when her emotions overwhelmed her. She's desperately trying to abide by her mother's rules (explanation for why she said this) while using it as an excuse to hurt the others who hurt her3
Basically, the fire the mother talks to Cynthia is a metaphorical fire of kindness, something Cynthia sees in her mother4 and the fire Cynthia is engulfed is her conflict: Should I be kind? Or should I enjoy the fact that these people who hurt us have been burnt? She uses her mother's words as an excuse to try and break the rules she set for herself.
However, if this seems to complicated, I am wlling to make the necessary changes. I can understand why it is pretty confusing, but there are two definition/iterations of the fire5 in the story that I'll be telling.
Thanks for looking over it, caspian2! As always, you're a great help in times of need.
