This looks like it took a while to make.
SCP-748 / Discussion
Forum
» Per Page Discussions / Per page discussions
» SCP-748
This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-748.
Unless I'm reading something wrong, this is the Factory as a skip, which I am heavily against. At least it made sense as an 001 the way it was written.
Oh, it's definitely the Factory; no question.
That being said, I feel that virtually every major GoI has been fleshed out a fair bit except the Factory, and that's a problem: it's boring when compared to Wondertainment or MC&D, who kind of take up the archetypal space that the Factory used to.
That is, Wondertainment covers the "Deranged Toymaker", and MC&D have eaten up almost all of the "Capitalism From Hell" market. IMO, the Factory needs some fresh ideas injected so it can grow out of its old, eclipsed state and into something newer that feeds the SCP ecosystem.
I don't think this does it by itself, but it creates fertile ground. I personally like the Factory as a force of para-nature, something mindless and all-consuming. I'm a wee bit concerned that this interpretation runs the risk of "humanizing" it too much, but the Investor (whoever/whatever that is) that runs things (or whoever runs the Investor) can still represent that force, so there's still potential here.
As for the Factory-as-skip: I had to mull it over for a bit before I decided on an upvote, and I feel I should explain the reasoning. From my perspective, there is the Factory-as-archetype and then Factory-as-character. The Factory-as-archetype should never be made into a skip, just like Wondertainment should never be caught and caged; it unfairly limits future writers from exploring the Wondertainment archetype.
However, then there is Factory-as-character: the things that the Foundation captures that give context and character to the Factory-as-archetype. This skip isn't "The Factory Contained", it's a small piece of the whole (with large pieces still unexplained, like the Investor) that was temporarily contained and then blew up in the Foundation's face. It's true to the Factory archetype (which I generally think of as Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and the Lovecraft Mythos' bastard child) without ruining it for everyone else, so figured I'd upvote and see where this goes.
YMMV, of course, but since we both started from the same "Wait… Did they just turn the Factory into a skip? I don't know if I'm okay with that…" line of thought, I thought I'd share.
That being said, I feel that virtually every major GoI has been fleshed out a fair bit except the Factory, and that's a problem: it's boring when compared to Wondertainment or MC&D, who kind of take up the archetypal space that the Factory used to.
Yeah, definitely. I dislike the Factory immensely. That being said, there's a way to give the Factory character in an SCP without literally turning the actual Factory into an SCP (SCP-1200 leaps right to mind). I feel like the fact that "Factory doesn't have much character, so this works" is flimsy; maybe someone should be making Oneiroi as an SCP? Or Nobody?
I dunno, it just bugs me. Having an actual honest-to-God GoI turned into a mainlister SCP is something I can't really get into as a concept. At least the 001 proposal is written under the pretense that it might be bullshit like all the other 001 proposals. But this goes too far in that direction for me to support. Though I can definitely see merit in the countertext you write. I just don't think I'm fine with it.
Fair enough, and I'll admit that I was on the fence for similar reasons. But, if it revitalizes the Factory a bit in exchange for them having a small "piece" of it under (failed) containment, it doesn't feel too much to me like a Contained-GoI, which does indeed violate the unwritten ruels of the site (don't catch the GoIs, no Mary Sues, don't kill 682, and don't give Able a heart of gold!). However, that's just a gut feeling, so I can respect the difference of opinion, since this does definitely balance right on that line.
(Side note: doesn't Nobody have an entry?)
Anyway, thanks for the discussion; one of my favorite things about this site is being able to chew over some of the knottier writing concepts with some damn clever people that get exactly what I'm talking about. Definitely one of the harder things to find IRL, y'know?
Weird. I really thought it did. (Picture with the man on a bench with a mushroom cloud on the horizon; I must be mixing things up).
Again, this is meant to be a glimpse. A way to characterize something that had been, for the most part, an empty box - I tried to put something in that box.
748 is a small glimpse of something that, in my mind, is much larger - and even if this looks pretty grand, it is still one gear in the machine. But whose origin is tied with greed and the madness and indifference of the industrial era.
You are describing the picture from SCP-990, I can't find anything in that article that hints at him being Nobody.
Hm, I always thought they were supposed to be the same guy. Like, somebody at the Foundation said "Hey, did you heard abouf that dream guy? " "He? Meh, he is just a nobody" And the name stuck.
Same. I seriously thought that *was* Nobody. I've thought this for years;/
Well, maybe he is and maybe he isn't. It's an old article and almost certainly predates the "modern" Nobody, and I suspect that (if Nobody isn't 990) then Nobody certainly cribs very heavily from 990.
However, you are correct that the article itself doesn't link them, just several Tales since.
Ok, I've had a fair bit of time to think on my downvote which I'm going to revert to neutral.
The reason for which is when I really sit down and think on it, I don't particularly like this piece strictly for headcanon reasons. Perhaps I was emotionally charged over something unrelated when I cast my vote. This article is well written, error free, and belongs on the mainlist regardless. Having my downvote stand as is I think would make me a hypocrite because I've never endorsed headcanon downvotes on articles personally.
Thus, switching to neutral.
I love this. Not much else to say about it, really. +1.
This is a nicely realized concept, and a good example for people who wish to write articles that employ the thematic weight of social commentary. The difference between something that's hamfisted and shrill and something that strikes a chord because it has the ring of truth to it is the work put into it and the willingness to let the story play out on its own without artificially cramming it into the agenda you've set for it. This article has harnessed some pretty powerful imagery in a thoughtful and chilling manner.
I suspect that what a lot of the ensuing discussion will be about will be what place this has in defining a concept that is part of the pseudo-canon of the site. All I have to say about that is, despite my feelings about GoIs and my distaste for them as a concept, this is the Factory done in a way that it actually has a reason to exist. This is the Factory written well. If I can stomach Kant counters and Humes showing up again (ugh), I hope the rest of the site can roll with an alternate imagining of a concept that needed some serious work to be viable.
This is the Factory written well.
That may be, but being a mainlist article, it should follow some pre-existing canon. Ideas done better are all well and good, but not entire concepts. I wouldn't even call this unintentional plagiarism, but it's close enough to just turn me off. That's my opinion on it.
See here
I hope the rest of the site can roll with an alternate imagining of a concept that needed some serious work to be viable.
Hey if it gets upvotes, more power to it. The people have spoken.
it should follow some pre-existing canon.
You mean a bunch of anomalous objects whose only connection is a brand that says "THE FACTORY" stamped on them? Otherwise I have no idea.
I wouldn't even call this unintentional plagiarism, but it's close enough to just turn me off.
I have no idea what you are saying and suspect I should feel pretty offended.
I should feel pretty offended
Offended about what? I'm not accusing you of anything.
Sorry, totally misunderstood you. I saw the term "plagiarism" and became defensive.
Truth be told, it was a big fear and a reason I sat on this as long as I did. I knew a *lot* of people would disagree with the headcanon but I hoped most would look beyond it.
Personnaly I think the problem isn't with the concept itself, the Factory being an anomaly is nice and sound and this is very well written. No, the problem is that, being a SCP means that the Foundation has some kind of protocol against it, which kind of breaks the "we don't know what the hell they are" vibe that the Factory has.
I wrote a longer response to this above, but I feel that the Factory has been badly in need of characterization.
Wondertainment and MC&D are the most similar GOIs, and we don't know what the hell they are either, but they still have a "voice" and more of a character than the Factory does, and that's a problem. I've felt for a while that the Factory needs more of a voice, a more developed framework for authors to work within, and I feel that this is a good move in that direction.
The Foundation never contained the Factory proper, just a tiny piece of it. Also, it now got ahold of technology that the Foundation considers "advanced", so whatever the Factory is becoming isn't necessarily what the Factory was in this story. In other words, it doesn't explain the Factory so much as it gives a ton of new story hooks for other authors to work from. I liked it enough to (after thinking it over for a good while) upvote, both for execution and because the Factory needed some lore expansion to stay relevant.
Right… I can't say I like the idea that the Foundation have so much data involving the Factory, but I get your point. It is true that MC&D and Wondertainment kind of are the capitalism analogy that I personnaly always thought the Factory represented, and maybe a more fleshed out story could help…
Maybe I could reconsider my downvote, I will need to think about it.
Okay, after some thinking (and rereading) I am going to change for an upvote. I personally prefer the Factory as the mysterious thing we know nothing about, but, headcannon aside, this is very well done (which is surprising considering the amount of cliches this article deals with).
So… nice job. +1
Thank you, this means a lot. And is exactly what I was aiming to do.
The Factory is back in business!
Oh hell yes. Back in business indeed.
Absolutely brilliant reforging of a rusty old bit of site lore. This takes the factory from a nebulous throwaway reference to something with real grit and substance. +1 because I can only upvote once.
This is much more fun than the 001 proposal that's the Factory. This has some punch. I just really, really dig the whole free market vibe they got going. Everything about this is just perfectly weird in a way I can just feel old-timey industrialists getting.
The dregs, the leftist, the PARASITES
Did the term "leftists" even exist back then? I doubt this guy has kept up very much on terminology.
Sure, "left wing" was coined in the French Revolution, and came to mean socialists and anarchists in the late 19th century.
I don't feel like reading the excerpt again, but I agree with Anaxagoras. The term might be old, but mayhaps "socialists," "anarchists," "unionists," or "reformists" would be more appropriate.
I already threw the term anarchist (which aren't really leftist) and socialist around, but leftist was very much in use at the time. But if it is perceived as out of place, I can easily change it.
Originally it literally referred to the left and sides of the Estates General (France's Congress/Parliament type thing at the time). The reformists all sat on the left side of the hall, the traditionalists gathered on the right, and the moderates sat in between trying to keep them from killing each other. Also literally.
This is entirely compatible with Bright's/DuckMan's 001. The Investor totally sounds like the builder of the Factory in that one, and I wouldn't see it past him to expand his enterprise. Now, I do have some complaints, but I'm not gonna bother with them while I'm on a mobile device with a rapidly-failing battery.
I'm happy with this, Meta, so you have my upvote.
"The innocent, the innocent, Mandus! Trod and bled and gassed and starved and beaten and enslaved. This is your coming century!"
This is how the Factory should be. Very, very hungry. Wondertainment creates, MC&D sells, and the Factory devours.
To any commentators worried about "making a GOI on the mainlist", I say poppycock and horseradish. It is but one Factory of many, and the ever-hungering maw seeks always to consume. Such is its nature.
Nice reference. And I've got to say you summarized my thoughts of our three little anomaly traders there.
MC&D sells, they do not care about nothing but the deal itself. They are like many megacorps of today, so massive that little deaths of clients don't affect them that much. I would say, they are not "evil" just very, very selfish.
Dr. Wondertainment creates, they are artists. Yeah, they make money, but they care more about client satisfaction. They are as those little, generally family-driven companies that appear once in a while. They have got quality, not size.
The Factory devours, hell yeah it does. It is old school, very liberal capitalism. It takes, it consumes, it assimilates everything in its huge scheme of markets, clients and workers. It represents humanity's darker side, the one that we would let free if we exchange ethics for power.
I'm glad someone else is thinking over the differentiators for these three GoIs, because I was struggling to nail them down yesterday and spent a fair bit of time thinking about it afterward.
If I were to assign distinct archetypes / concepts to each of them, it would be this:
Wondertainment: Mad Toymaker / Willy Wonka from Dimension X / Godlike Powers and No Common Sense.
Primary horror components: the "innocence/wonder of children" taken to absurd and/or terrifying levels, alien concepts making the reader question their interpretation of reality, alien morality intersecting with human frailty.
MC&D: Sociopathic Businessmen / Free Market from Hell / Be Careful What You Wish For / Needful Things.
Primary horror components: hedonistic karma, evil Illuminati, "a higher price than you could have imagined", deal with the Devil, and lots more than I can think of off the top of my head.
Factory: Utilitarian Dystopia / Upton Sinclair Meets HP Lovecraft / Steampunk from Hell / Ayn Rand - Adam Smith Slashfic.
Primary horror components: It's evil, but an impersonal evil, which in some ways is worse than anything else. Lovecraft's best horror was "ancient beings that don't care or really even perceive Humanity as more than bacteria, if at all", and the Factory is somewhat similar. We're almost incidental to its goals, useful only as consumers, raw materials or slave labor. There is nothing special about humanity (or any life, or anything else) to it, no more than any other cog, and it uses us accordingly. That cold, dehumanizing perspective is what really characterizes the best Factory material, and it's what sells it. It's sort of a Victorian "Paperclip Maximizer" that only cares about making/selling its paperclips, and devouring everything in its path is just a side effect of that.
And, somehow, they still overlap!
I think the core difference (beside the tone, that's it) is their objectives and ideologies. The "it's just business" from MC&D vs. the cheerful and a little creepy of Dr. W vs. the almost religious money adoration of The Facyory. It would be fun to see the three of them interacting…
…
Excuse me, I need to write something.
Excuse me, I need to write something.
…This gon be gud.
I guess if I had to boil down all three to motivation, I'd say Wondertainment is "I bring my understanding of joy to kids!", MC&D is "The Art of The Deal with the Devil", and the Factory is "I CONSUME, YOU CONSUME, WE ALL CONSUME FOR CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME".
Great, now I have a 50's commercial song about consuming stuck in my head.
I have a better one. And before you ask, this is not an edited version to make it weirder. This is genuinely how it is supposed to be. You cannot unknow that.
/forum/t-1326849/scp-748#post-
page revision: 1, last edited: 02 Apr 2021 15:16
