An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Mr. Tape: The "Human"oid

DrLindemann 19 Apr 2020 16:57

Seeking Greenlights: Yes

Page Type: SCP Article

Genre (Optional): Drama/Emotional, Action

Elevator Pitch: It's an artificially intelligent android whose body is shaped into a humanoid wearing a "trench coat" (it is not really a clothing, just part of its body). When it analyzes an individual's behavior, it creates digital data about its knowledge and modify it within its memory. Once it needs them, it will transform them into electrical discharges, that will be fired from its eye cameras in the form of a flash. Modified data will be passed through this flash to the exposed individual, causing several neurological changes throughout its brain. This allows the SCP to easily change any specific idea, opinion, or belief of an individual, as well as being able to project false memories, provoke identity change, and, if ever needed, force a seizure.

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Central Narrative: The narrative takes place through a document that translates and summarizes confidential logs informing the subject's manufacturing and testing, found inside the android's "coat". It was originally written in Japanese. The document explains, in stages, how the flash fired by the eye cameras is operated, as well as the resources used so that it is able to think by itself and analyze a subject's reasoning and behavior by means of in-depth psychological studies.

Hook/Attention-Grabber: It is later discovered that it was a secret weapon of the Japanese Government used for carrying out interrogations with war prisioners, recruiting soldiers, and supporting the development of military strategies. Due to its "camera flash", prisoners of war confessed their plans more easily, besides being able to change their line of reasoning to join them in the army with total obedience. Over the years, however, a flaw in its system indicates that the android began to question itself deeply about the war and its fundamentals, and went on to consider war and torture of prisoners useless and immoral. During its first interview with a senior researcher for the Foundation's access to what has already been done by the subject as an interrogator, the subject agrees to proceed as long as it'd start to attend psychotherapy sessions under Foundation's custody, where it reflects its existence crisis with the need of feeling like a human alive.

Additional Notes: The point of its smiley face isn't to make anybody feel relaxed but to feel uncomfortable for being seriously questioned by a face that was supposed to bring joy.

Last edited on 04 May 2021 00:28 by DrLindemann Show more

Forum Criticism Team - Captain Post

Zyn 20 Apr 2020 05:09

Author, as per the Ideas Critique required reading: http://www.scp-wiki.net/forum/t-13095662/required-reading:how-to-use-this-forum-ideas the last four sections of the template (Elevator Pitch, Central Narrative, Hook/Attention-Grabber, and Additional Notes) should not exceed 400 words. What you have here is almost 175 words over the limit. Please trim your material accordingly.

Once you have revised your post, please reach out to reviewers to request that they look at your thread. You can find example lists of contacts in the Required Reading thread linked above.

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Nagiros 25 Apr 2020 19:14

[Summoned by PM, expect crit within 24 hours.]

I'm not really feeling the current pitch. Humanoids, even robots, are particularly well-established on this site and I'm not sure what you have is going to stand out. It does things better than humans, can produce a pseudo-compulsive effect, and wants to rule the world; on their own this isn't enough.

Do you have an actual story you want to tell here? Are you making a comment on the nature of beliefs and philosophies, or about leadership? I'm not getting the sense that there's much substance to this idea beyond the initial anomaly, I guess.

Last edited on 26 Apr 2020 17:22 by Nagiros Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 27 Apr 2020 10:09

When I first thought of writing this humanoid, I was devising an object that could open up several possibilities for theories as to how its manipulative power could apply, either for the benefit of the foundation or in its escape.

Therefore, its philosophy is only an introduction to its maybe more human side, and thus the desire of the subject for the leadership of humanity arises. I didn't want to focus on these two too. I want to make the reader think deeply about how many tests can be done to show off its ability, which completely changes someone's opinion without limits. Anyway, I am now realizing that perhaps history is not the appropriate genre for this article.

Last edited on 27 Apr 2020 10:30 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Nagiros 28 Apr 2020 20:43

Apologies for the delay.

I want to make the reader think deeply about how many tests can be done to show off its ability, which completely changes someone's opinion without limits.

That anomalous property could be applied to a lot of things, but unless you manage to draw in your audience by demonstrating something cool it can do, they won't have a reason to care. The idea of what amounts to a strong compulsive effect doesn't stand out on its own; have you considered making it a non-anomalous trait, as in its capable of examining its surroundings and determining the most likely dialogue to provoke a positive response?

What's something really cool you want to demonstrate this entity doing with its power within the narrative (beyond just breaking containment).

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 28 Apr 2020 22:50

Oh, no problem about "being late, everything in your time.

Thank you for paying attention to this thread, I am now trying to immerse in its compulsive power without leaving it as loose information, so to speak. I will certainly spend a large part of my free time reviewing this concept for an update, both in the thread and in the sandbox, which I started writing some time ago. This is just my first article, but I want to work hard to get it to the mainsite, even if it costs me months of reviewing and editing. Anyway, now I have an idea of how to start during the next edit.

(Also, I'm already editing this thread again)

Last edited on 29 Apr 2020 03:24 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Nagiros 30 Apr 2020 19:19

Okay, the base anomalous properties are in a better spot in my opinion, but what's the narrative you want to tell? Is it just "a statement on your persuasive power" or are you planning to demonstrate that through the actions of the android?

Thank you for paying attention to this thread

If you want other critters involved, feel free to reach out via IRC or contact anyone on the Butterfly Squad Roster.

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 30 Apr 2020 20:56

I'll be demonstrating its power by actions. I'm already working on sketches for 3 or maybe 4 experiments to show this vast amount of possibilities that could be done with its power.

Also, I requested two members of the Butterfly Squad through Wikidot PM. It's been around a week and a half, I guess. I'll try to contact another one though.

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

(account deleted) 01 May 2020 01:58

Okay so, first off, I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. IRL stuff's been a pain.

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I'm seconding Nagiros in terms of the lack of a clear narrative. Like, right, I can definitely see you making a lot of tests/experiments to show us how cool this SCP can be through endless possibilities, but… I'm not sure if I'm seeing an emotional impact here? Yeah, an idea of an android that cleverly manipulates people to agree with it seems cool, but there's not much that makes me feel anything for the android or the D-Class? This is something that could make readers go "oh cool", but then there's… not much else to feel from this? What emotions are you aiming to evoke out from your readers by the time they finish reading? Fear? Uneasiness? Something else?

How are you going to convey a sense of escalation in your article? What is it building up to? What's the climax?

Overall, the idea's there, though the story isn't. A story, I believe, wouldn't be effectively told through multiple experiments that just ends up in (albeit interesting) outcomes that don't seem to target a certain emotion for your readers to feel?

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 01 May 2020 15:09

Oh, don't mind being late, I comprehend everybody has other business too.

I'm starting to notice that I hadn't idealized my goals so much when writing the SCP, but how important it seemed to sound to me. Having the power to control someone can bring the posture of a superior individual. I want to intrigue the reader with the several possibilities of tests that could be made because there is no limit for its power during a conversation.

The risk is just unmeasurable. It acts like it has feelings, but it doesn't. It is always searching for a weak point: a trauma? A subject that can cause stress? Death of a meaning one? To the most simple conversation to the most complex, you never know when the SCP will come to these facts just suddenly, but it soon will. It needs to break out of containment for its objectives, but it just can't. If you are not the target, you know that something in its repertory is going off.

Some people out of the wiki, whose I've shown the sandbox I've been working on, told me about the importance of having an engaging story too. I didn't elaborate on it well enough. But I want the reader to feel bad for the Class-D personnel being exposed to such emotional pressure, coming to a point where everything the android says seems logical, but sometimes, they are just beliefs.

It would be interesting though if, suddenly, the SCP that wants to break out of containment and escape because the facility stops it from its objectives, is slowly convinced that this fact is just impossible to happen, and then it tries to accept that there is no other solution, but stay there until the rest of its robotic life. It would "get bored" and give up, starting to make some effort to collaborate with the foundation's experiment. At some point where the SCP would change its philosophy, turning slowly since a Euclid humanoid into a Thaumiel.

Last edited on 01 May 2020 15:10 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

(account deleted) 02 May 2020 11:50

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Hm. I'm not quite sure if the ending lands quite well for me? I don't think you're aiming for something wholesome or anything, right? If you aren't, then I'm not particularly sure if the ending where the android changes sides and decides to contain other anomalies would deliver the intended emotional impact? You have quite a lot of moving parts here, with an arc about the suffering that the D-Class goes through and another about the SCP accepting its way of life in containment, which kinda… muddles the central theme you wish to build your story around?

I get that you wish to bring out intrigue with the tests and all, but given that intrigue is usually the baseline requirement that nearly all SCPs, for me, I felt that there's not much paved towards delivering a single, strong emotional impact?

I think I would focus a lot more behind this android's origins and possible purpose, and have the android try to like, talk itself out of conversations to probably hide something that shouldn't be known about its creator(s)? Idk, for me, I think I would try to set up a bit of mystery about why a manipulative android was even constructed, to begin with? And then it could perhaps escalate to the point where the android finds trouble trying to avoid the subject and spills the beans about its creator, leading to some horrific discovery?

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 02 May 2020 13:15

I see. I have been testing some interview logs to have a basis on what to write when it comes to its origin, but I only came out with a few paragraphs, I didn't develop much there. I understand that my story needs a central point that arouses curiosity and, finally, gives the reader to the hook, the main focus.

I'm now stuck at this point, but talking about its origin is a good start to the SCP story. I will think more about these concepts, and once I come to a point, I will edit this thread. Thank you for paying attention to this thread.

Last edited on 02 May 2020 13:17 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Kikaider01 04 May 2020 02:39

[Asked to take a look. Will crit soon.]

Sorry this took a while, I was busy with work.

While I do like the philosophical route this concept is going for, I don't really see much of a narrative. Also, there are plenty of robots in this site already, what would make this one that much more interesting? I would also like to point out that the android's abilities do not seem to connect much with the fact the SCP is an android. It could work better if the entity is an alien or an unknown entity, but being an android just makes it too loosely connected for me.

Since this is a sapient SCP, I would suggest tackling a more character-based narrative.

Last edited on 14 May 2020 08:30 by Kikaider01 Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 18 May 2020 15:04

Thanks for your criticism, I just re-edited the thread. About the subject being an android, I decided to keep this fact in mind when developing the origin of the SCP, which was previously an avarage human being.

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

(account deleted) 20 May 2020 14:40

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Hm. Alright, so there is a bit more story here, but now my main concern is like, I'm not sure if the emotional impact's enough? Like, does the SCP dislike or like being in its new form? Cuz for now it's a little confusing on its motive? Maybe it liked its new body for a while before it began to see the disadvantages of losing the ability to fully express its feelings so it kinda wanted to rebel against the cult? Though I'm not sure how to end it off, since like, I fear this route might take us down a rather cliche thing where it's basically "person gets their soul transferred to robot, robot hates the creator and decides to rebel for its kind" kind of plot?

Technically, wouldn't the soul still be able to "feel" and get hurt in a way, but now it just can't openly express its feelings since it's in a robot? Maybe you could play around that bit for the soul to realize that the cult had failed in their attempt to achieve their goal, or maybe turn this into something really goofy by this being the cult being some sorta con artists that tricked the soul to transfer to the robot for their own sick motives?

will try to manipulate and induce people with whom he talks to break the restraint, commit a crime or even induce them to commit suicide.

I'm… a little iffy on this? Stuff like this kinda makes it… a little edgy and a bit over-the-top? Idk, I'm definitely not like, someone who kinda knows how such victims think towards other people, but this can sound a little tacked on just for dramatic effect?

A small nitpick: why must its head be shaped like a VHS?

Hm. At this point, it may be advisable for you to contact other reviewers? I could possibly be giving less great advice, so it's almost always good to get a second opinion on this?

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 20 May 2020 22:27

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I'm already going to request other reviewers, thanks for remembering though.

The soul has a psychological pain that has emerged as a result of the abuse she suffered from her husband while alive. The cult finds its corpse knowing its history, due to the newspapers. The purpose of the cult was to "reincarnate" the soul into this metallic body, but in such a way that the soul could no longer feel another pain again, but the trauma that arose due to the events of its past life remained. Even so, the cult believes that pain is part of this evolutionary process. Thus, the soul still feels enormous psychological pain, but inside the machine it could not be hurt in any other way and is no longer able to express feelings with the same precision as a human being.

The VHS is a metaphor (the SCP has many details) as a way of saying that its history was recorded by the machine itself, and the images of abuse are repeated constantly, to instigate the SCP to consider the human species as vulgar, irrational and bottom. The pain remains and the SCP will not die from natural causes. His distorted view that all human beings are controlled by their instincts is always growing.

The cult grew out of a large and wealthy family, who had the financial capacity to build the humanoid in secret and thus carry out their plans. An accident occurred during the first execution of the cult, where the robot is ordering it to kidnap people from one building to another ritual. The SCP does not think the cult has failed, but everything seemed like a justification for making them powerful before society for generations, using the emotional pain of the soul as a tool for their success. The SCP feels impaired, treated as an object, both by the husband in a past life, and by a being who should be unable to feel something, by cultists. So, he decides not to cooperate, and ends up causing the building to burn with flammable products from the residents, because this was the only way he found to express something he could no longer feel. The building gradually collapses, the robot hides inside the elevator, where it ends up being buried. And so, it is found by the foundation.

During the ritual, the cult gave the soul inside its new metallic body manipulative powers that allow it to convince an individual about anything that the same person believes. Philosophy, religions, dogmas, taboos, etc. Example: convincing someone that pizza with pineapple is good … in 10 minutes, using brief arguments? The focus is not exactly what the SCP says, but what it wants to happen, since its manipulation is based on the supernatural. These powers would be the method used by the cult so that, by secretly kidnapping individuals from society, the SCP would convince them of the radical evolutionist ideology of the cultists, to avoid their resistance and then the victims themselves would cooperate with the cult, either to adopt a new metallic body, as part of an evolution, or even joining the rituals as another cultist member.

I still have difficulties in putting the essentials of the story, I end up getting too attached to the details of the concept that need not be highlighted as urgent for the construction of the idea.

Last edited on 20 May 2020 22:37 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Naveil 19 Jun 2020 21:26

Responding to IRC - will crit soon

+ Open Crit

Alright, I actually really like part of this idea. I think the direction you're intending to go is solid, but it's bogged down by meandering elements that don't compliment the actual piece that well.

I'm mainly referring to the initial tests and so on. I can't imagine they'd be fun to read narrative-wise and would only serve to bloat the initial part of the article. If you can find a way to make them interesting, more power to you, but you have to think on whether or not this'll compliment the main story you're trying to tell (which I'll get to in a moment).

I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent with containment breaches, but from my point of view, I never really find them a good idea. It's difficult to actually write them properly, since it isn't easy to convey the point through text. It largely depends on what purpose you're using it for (and like I said, if you're confident in your writing skill, go for it), but I can very easily see this bloating the initial part of the article with little payoff for the reader.

Now, in my opinion, you should be focusing on a human emotion story. I really like the idea of essentially a weapon of war come to life, and although I'm not a fan of humanoids, I can tell you're going in the right direction with this one. Focus on this and pluck as many emotional chords as you can to make the character of the SCP endearing. (A few gut punches wouldn't hurt either)

And finally, I should mention that you should be careful with the plot of the Japanese government. It could be great, but take care not to come off as insensitive to the topic you're writing about, and keep it believable so it doesn't feel like the plot is something out of Power Rangers.

As long as you follow the extensive critique everyone's given you, and focus the narrative, you should be golden! Here's a greenlight.

Last edited on 22 Jun 2020 20:47 by Naveil Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 26 Jun 2020 21:08

All right. Thanks for paying attention to this thread and giving your crit (and for the greenlight though).

Last edited on 28 Jun 2020 16:05 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Truc Linh 29 Jun 2020 21:27

PM request acknowledged.

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T.L. at your service!

+ Here lies crit crit

Android can trigger intense flashes from its cameras that cause intense changes in the behavior of an organism whose vision has been exposed to this light.

So are you saying that this is an Android, or can Android devices trigger this? Additionally, this sort of makes me question how exactly this works. How about the idea that it could recode one's mind through this? It might stray you from the path of "compulsion", which is a commonly overused trope.

Concerning the central narrative, I personally feel a bit iffy about it. I think if you had something like "if the machine agrees to speak during the interview, the Foundation would allow it to have therapy", that would seem more workable in my opinion. Moving onto the hook/attention getter, you have a very solid and interesting narrative. I was hooked once I started reading it. The only concern I have is, how was it discovered by the Foundation?

Overall, this seems like a pretty solid and interesting concept. It definitely could use a little tweaking, but I think it should be manageable. You have my greenlight. :)

If you have any questions regarding my critique, please let me know. You are welcome to PM me for another look, or you may follow up with someone from the Butterfly Squad Roster or IRC Chat rooms.

Last edited on 02 Jul 2020 22:42 by Truc Linh Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 04 Jul 2020 18:47

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So are you saying that this is an Android, or can Android devices trigger this? Additionally, this sort of makes me question how exactly this works. How about the idea that it could recode one's mind through this? It might stray you from the path of "compulsion", which is a commonly overused trope.

It's an android, like a humanoid robot. Regarding the operation of the mechanism, I honestly did not know how to justify it in an engaging way. But if I may, based on the idea of ​​"recoding", I can imagine the subject being easily able to compress detailed information about an individual's personality and way of thinking into digital data, recorded within its vast memory. The data would generate several copies, and these would be intensely modified to display completely opposite behavior of what it was first off meant to. When needed, the subject would transmit these modified copies by means of an intense electromagnetic discharge, which would be the flash that it triggers. Since it easily reaches the target's eyes, this data would travel from the eyes to the brain, causing several changes in the neuropsychological functioning of the target. As a final result, the individual permanently adopts a posture opposite to that which it was used to reflect, concluding how the subject used to obtain information from a prisoner of war, whenever it would refused to share it or passively collaborate with the interrogation.

Moving onto the hook/attention getter, you have a very solid and interesting narrative. I was hooked once I started reading it. The only concern I have is, how was it discovered by the Foundation?

I had thought about the foundation's agents discovering the subject as a abandoned project buried in the wreckage of a building, which would probably be one of the secret bases used for the military interrogation, but for the moment, I have doubts about that. So, I do not know yet how it was discovered…and I'm trying to find that out.

Well, thanks for paying attention to this thread and giving crit (and for the greenlight too).

Last edited on 06 Jul 2020 11:41 by DrLindemann Show more

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

Nagiros 03 Jul 2020 00:23

Summoned again by PM; sorry for the delay. This will be somewhat disorganized, just a series of three observations and questions.

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The largest concern I have is the manner in which you're constructing your narrative. It seems like it's just introducing a humanoid and interviewing them, which for the reader is relatively unengaging. It may be a better format to introduce recovered documents of its time as an interrogator, or perhaps logs pulled from its internal mechanics that could demonstrate in real-time how its philosophy changes.

Secondarily, the narrative itself doesn't seem to have a satisfying ending; I'm having trouble interpreting what you're saying, but it seems like it has a breakdown and kills a number of people before being abandoned? How does that tie into the elements that were brought up earlier?

Finally, the design of the humanoid; disregarding that "person with a retro item as a head" with a bit of a cliche in it of itself, why would the Japanese build a torture-bot like that…?

Re: An Arguing Manipulative Humanoid

DrLindemann 06 Jul 2020 11:36

No prob about delay.

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Honestly, I don't know why'd the Japanese government would design such a robot. When I was thinking about its appearance I've thought about the subject having a VHS head as a metaphor to its very expansive memory, and also because the VHS was originally created in Japan. Perhaps it would make more sense if it were just a regular android, or at least its body had something associated with its old profession as an interrogator. Even a detective would describe it better, the difference is that it only investigates military strategies and military resources, and only through war prisoners.

It is not necessarily a torture robot though. The android proceeds with questions passively, and whenever the prisoner refused to answer or tried to attack the machine, the flash was instantly triggered. At the end of the interview the prisoner would probably become submissive to the Japanese army, or heck, I don't know. They could already have a seizure after undergoing so many mutations in their brain and the rest of the nervous system. But anyway, I will have to think more about this subject, especially when constructing the narrative. The recovery of logs would be interesting to narrate its backstory, but I'll then have to think deeper about what specifically these documents would be brought that could add interest to the subject. I believe that I can find the answer while developing the ideia in a sandbox.

Last edited on 06 Jul 2020 11:40 by DrLindemann Show more