SCP-5830 / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-5830.

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SCP-5000: Ahtohallan

kg583 17 Jan 2020 05:00

Where the north wind…
Meets the sea…

Okay, it's not THAT Ahtohallan, but inspired by it. This idea was really an SCP idea first, and a mystery second, but I hope I've done a decent job of melding the two together.

This is my first real entry to the SCP Foundation, so I appreciate any and all critique that comes this way, especially if you do downvote it.

My alternative slot choices are

• SCP 5005
• SCP 5555
• SCP 5700
• SCP 5830
• SCP 5999

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

ItsDenali 17 Jan 2020 14:33

I actually enjoy this one. Not sure why it's getting so many downvotes, but you can at least have a +1 from me.

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-Denali

TedIsCoolIGuess 17 Jan 2020 17:49

I enjoyed reading this article, I felt like it was a very unique idea. However, I don't think a slot as important as 5000 should be given to an article relying on other scips. Once the contest is over, I'm probably going to go back and upvote, as the scip itself is very well written.

kg583 17 Jan 2020 20:09

Thanks for the evaluation. That's a very fair point about the SCP reliance for the slot. I'll look into sprucing this up for a general submission later.

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

Last edited on 17 Jan 2020 20:13 by kg583 Show more

Junior Staff Post

aismallard 17 Jan 2020 22:51

I've cleared your tags for now: "mystery" is not a valid tag. If you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with tagging, it is advised to leave your article untagged (sans the 5000 contest tag) until a member of Tech Team can tag it for you.

Junior Staff - Site Crit

MalyceGraves 18 Jan 2020 23:29

kg583, when you post something to the main site, there are two phrases that you acknowledge before posting:

Did you get feedback first?

It is your responsibility to post only finished, final work. Site members are not required to justify or explain their votes.

The wiki isn't short of resources to improve your work before posting. The following links are for your consideration in the future:

• Idea Critique forum to get your concept checked and greenlit, that of which you can find more about here. This should be your first step.
• Drafts Critique forum to seek reviews on drafts before going to the main site. Note that you need two greenlights if you are first-time author, that of which you can find more about here.
• How To Write An SCP page to review the basics.
• The Clinical Tone Declassified page can help you nail that tone needed for a successful article.
• Butterfly Squad are dedicated reviewers and can help you flesh out your ideas and strengthen your drafts.
• IRC chatrooms to seek out live critique, if that's more your speed.
• This in-depth guide on writing your first SCP.
• This essay on generic items and how they succeed and fail.
• This essay on humanoid SCP objects and how to make them real.

Finally, a bit of a roadmap for you ->

I hope that this can give you an idea about the process:

• Read a lot. Take the time to read the articles here, and to read stuff elsewhere. Ambrose Bierce wrote some excellent disquieting fiction and created a big chunk of the platform that later horror writers stood upon. HP Lovecraft. Edgar Allan Poe. These are all literary masters for a reason, and while their more archaic style isn't always up to modern standards, the genius of their work is still very relevant.
• Take some time to really storyboard out your idea. Look at it from a bunch of angles, see if you can find any inconsistencies or narrative gaps. The links that I have provided above can be really helpful in that.
• Get some critique of your idea. There are a lot of people that are really good at what they do that are willing to help if you just give them the time to do so.
• Once you have a good idea, write a draft, then give that several read-overs. Write it, then go take a walk or watch a show, then come back and give it another read over. Read it out loud. Read it to a friend.
• Once you have a solid draft, get it critiqued by authors here that have experience with the site. Lots of good help in that as well.

Last edited on 20 Jan 2020 15:53 by MalyceGraves Show more

Re: Junior Staff - Site Crit

kg583 19 Jan 2020 22:48

I've presented an idea on the SCP forum before through the process you mentioned (it wasn't a very good idea), and I was not under the impression that this contest was subject to the same procedure (i.e., that an idea had to be greenlit in this case). I can see why it would be in hindsight, of course, but it was not entirely evident since this is a special contest. Apologies.

Furthermore, while I know that what you have just presented is likely a very commonly used copy-paste template you have for these kind of situations, it feels a bit demeaning in its presentation, as it implies to an extent that I have not overlooked any of those resources and that I am just a newbie in over their head. I'm not, or at least I don't think I am; I've read every one of those pages, some more than others. I took care with my submission. Really, I did.

But I get it. You've got a process, and it's a good one. Good for curating and maintaining quality stuff on the site (usually). But just pasting what I'm pretty sure is exactly what is found on one of the welcome/tutorial pages doesn't really help me here.

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

Last edited on 19 Jan 2020 23:03 by kg583 Show more

Re: Junior Staff - Site Crit

MalyceGraves 20 Jan 2020 16:59

First and foremost, I apologize if my posting came off as patronizing or intentionally demeaning. It is never my intent to be intentionally discouraging, I post that precisely because I want to make sure that new authors are aware of the resources available to them.

Folded, for our mobile users ->

I do try and check to see if the author is actually a new author, but its not a precise science. Often I have a fairly short window to try and get these links out for the new author to see, so I don't get an opportunity to really do a full history search.

Also, I should point out that you do not need to go through the greenlight process in order to post to the main site. Everyone is free to post whatever they want, and the greenlight process is not meant to prevent that. What it does is help make best use of the resources available, both to staff and to the users themselves. I know from personal experience how we can oftentimes pour a bunch of time and resources into an idea only to find that the concept was fundamentally flawed from the beginning. This is to try and help prevent that.

Finally, I want to thank you for continuing to try and work within the system and for putting your work out there. I realize that the post I put up wasn't exactly useful to you, but I hope that you can recognize how I am trying to help. The "roadmap" I put in there is my own addition, in the hopes that I can also give the authors a bit of quickie guide. I'm always open to feedback on how to make it better, more an effective tool, rather than some sort of "punishment."

Last edited on 20 Jan 2020 17:02 by MalyceGraves Show more

Re: Junior Staff - Site Crit

kg583 21 Jan 2020 17:37

No worries man; your guidelines are exactly the sort of thing that you should be sharing with new(er) authors, and attempting to divine how new an author is for the sake of tailoring that response isn't necessarily an easy or even worthwhile task. If anything, it is to my disadvantage that I did not think to avail myself to those resources more heavily before the submission.

Apologies if I came off strongly earlier; I was probably just a bit miffed about low ratings at the time.

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

Last edited on 21 Jan 2020 17:41 by kg583 Show more

adowilap 19 Jan 2020 21:20

I like this a lot and agree that it's well written, but it should have a different slot than 5000.

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bruh^bruh

kg583 19 Jan 2020 23:03

That seems to be the common vibe, and I can totally agree. Making this a contest submission was a bit over impulsive on my end and I probably should have saved it. Thanks.

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

Kairos385 21 Jan 2020 01:43

I really don't know why this is rated so poorly. The premise is interesting enough and the writing is decent. It's not amazing or super new but it's better than a lot of other 5000 entries that have much higher ratings.

sachiel187 21 Jan 2020 09:48

i actually think this is a perfectly fine pick for the 5000 slot. there's quite a bit of the "mystery" theme surrounding this entry, and a number like 5000 deserves to be a retrospective and referential SCP entry. it's criminal this is getting downvoted like this, but it's just one man's opinion i suppose. a hearty +1 to you, hopefully this makes it somewhere as a mainlist article — and gets some exploration logs.

Weryllium 23 Jan 2020 20:43

There's a couple rookie slip-ups in here, stuff like using feet measurement, the deprecated "number (#)" notation, and minor grammar/word errors, like "region containing the entrance SCP-5000".

That aside, the core premise isn't immediately grabbing me (though I admit I'm kinda blase when it comes to skips that center around referencing other skips). The layout also leaves something to be desired; you've got the Navigation Procedures (which might even not be necessary) wedged smack in between the Discovery and the journals. Same goes for the little blurb about SCP-1281 trying to send its message. I'm also not sure why this is Thaumiel.

If you do end up reworking this, I would recommend focusing the work more, either on the expedition crew, or whatever implications you're trying to build with the tunnels full of replica SCPs, because it feels disjoint right now.

kg583 25 Jan 2020 04:24

I've seen plenty of articles use the feet (meters) notation, but if that's not the standard any more then so be it (same with the numbers (#) thing).

As for the addendums that appear and their layout, I'm not one to want to tailor the SCP to some story; the Navigation Procedures would be relevant to the study of this SCP, irrespective of its connection to the strange happenings regarding the SCP's discovery. And for the SCP-1281 blurb I think you've missed the point on what that part is referencing (which may be indication that I didn't set it up all that well, but I'd need more opinions).

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

TheMightyMcB 25 Jan 2020 21:31

I'm not one to want to tailor the SCP to some story

SCPs are inherently works of fiction, insofar as that they serve an ultimate narrative purpose more often than not. If your goals here are not to weave a cohesive narrative in with the SCP format, then you will not have an easy time here.

the Navigation Procedures would be relevant to the study of this SCP, irrespective of its connection to the strange happenings regarding the SCP's discovery.

What you may have failed to realize here is that every word you spend not progressing your story, building characters, adding suspense/atmosphere, or priming your readers is a word wasted. Doing things like this will destroy the pacing of your narrative and cause most of your readers to lose interest.

kg583 27 Jan 2020 19:34

This is really a difference in implied creative purpose of this wiki, then. I (and I know I am not alone in this interpretation) read SCPs in the literal sense as a fictitious log of anomalous happenings in our world. It's a reference source, a database of sorts. CIA agents don't write stories into their mission reports, or hope that some compelling narrative pops out of whatever it was they were doing that is more often than not a bit mundane.

That being said, there is the narrative aspect. This is fiction, and fiction tends to tell stories; few would choose to peruse boring mission reports, and perhaps I am underestimating the number of people who read this sort of stuff for the stories more so than the concepts. But, as an extension of my own comment:

I'm not one to want to tailor the SCP to some story

Instead, I'd rather tailor the story to the SCP.

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The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.

DreamerOfTheDay 24 Jan 2020 20:52

There are several errors in this piece that others have already pointed out, but I was left a little confused with the nature of the skip itself, and what exactly the deal with Dr. Knudsen was. I guess that's why it's in the 5000 contest, lol.

Despite that, I still like the article overall. I personally liked the supplements, even if they a couple were unnecessary. I've always been a fan of anything set in the extreme cold, so I might be a little biased.

I'm gonna leave it at a no vote.

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